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Old 05-11-2007, 06:39 PM   #16
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Originally posted by LJT
The road to hell is paved with good intentions...
Very true.
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Old 05-11-2007, 06:39 PM   #17
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I'd take 10 years of Blair over 8 years of Bush anyday.




Here's to hoping I get to see him on the lecture circuit My friends are convinced I'll become a Tony Blair groupie whenever he tours around the US. I do have an "I Tony Blair" t-shirt...


Anyway, he was far from perfect...but he was a great politician. I plan to study a lot of what he did and learn from him. I wonder what we would be saying about him if he hadn't been so gung-ho about Iraq.
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Old 05-11-2007, 06:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
I wonder what we would be saying about him if he hadn't been so gung-ho about Iraq.

I thing Iraq hurt Tony
more than Monica hurt Bill.
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Old 05-11-2007, 06:52 PM   #19
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I'll be interested to see how history looks upon him. I don't know...I disagree with him whole heartedly on Iraq, but from an American perspective looking at how things are going in Britain I still really respect him.
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Old 05-11-2007, 06:54 PM   #20
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Originally posted by U2democrat
...I disagree with him whole heartedly on Iraq, but from an American perspective looking at how things are going in Britain I still really respect him.
How do you perceive things as going in Britain?
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Old 05-11-2007, 09:31 PM   #21
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A heck of a lot better than the way things are going here. A thriving economy (the pound is almost twice the dollar), embracing multiculturalism, better healthcare, and less crime.


Let me put it this way: Tony Blair has a knack for winning elections, with the exception of this last one (which could have been worse). I want to study this and adapt it to politics in the US.
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Old 05-11-2007, 09:31 PM   #22
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Rather Blair than Howard
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:39 AM   #23
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I have to say Tony Blair was one of the main reasons I had doubt about whether going into Iraq was a mistake. He really helped the Bush administration's faulty position. I had had so much respect for him due to his international work, especially helping Albanian Muslims in Kosovo. He was willing to go much farther than Clinton, who didn't want to send in ground forces in order to keep US casualities low. Blair just seemed to care more and he really won me over when arguing that the legal status of state sovereignty shouldn't permit abuse of peoples within that state's borders -- that there was such a thing as universal rights we had to protect.

After 9/11, Blair really let the free world down. I really don't understand why he did it. Was it stubbornness or unwillingness to make mistakes? Does he still believe in his simplistic division of the world into good and evil, rather than regular people facing hardship or negative cultural influences becoming more easily seduced by violence and cruelty? I expected more from him. I hope he lives the rest of his life in shame and misery because he has really hurt our future, and has shown no willingness to stop Bush and his administration's hierarchcal approach to the world. Same for Colin Powell.
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Old 05-12-2007, 06:38 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
embracing multiculturalism
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Old 05-12-2007, 10:56 AM   #25
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Actually I've been very lucky and very blessed and this country is a blessed nation. The British are special. The world knows it...
Yes, Tone of-course they do. Of-course they do...

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...261151,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6108302.stm http://english.people.com.cn/200602/...28_246586.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../ncancer10.xml
http://news.independent.co.uk/enviro...cle1222223.ece
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/retirem...1&in_page_id=6

Quote:
...In our innermost thoughts we know it. This is the greatest nation on earth
Obviously we know it Tone...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6210358.stm




To be honest I really don't know how I feel about Blair's Premiership now that he is finally going. I suppose a lot will depend on how successful Gordon Brown is as his successor. I guess he's just like all the other British Prime Ministers really isn't he? He's had his successes, he's had his failures and he's had his deranged melomaniac moments.

But we're all forgetting the true loss to British politics:

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Old 05-12-2007, 11:04 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Muldfeld
I have to say Tony Blair was one of the main reasons I had doubt about whether going into Iraq was a mistake. He really helped the Bush administration's faulty position. I had had so much respect for him due to his international work, especially helping Albanian Muslims in Kosovo. He was willing to go much farther than Clinton, who didn't want to send in ground forces in order to keep US casualities low. Blair just seemed to care more and he really won me over when arguing that the legal status of state sovereignty shouldn't permit abuse of peoples within that state's borders -- that there was such a thing as universal rights we had to protect.

After 9/11, Blair really let the free world down. I really don't understand why he did it. Was it stubbornness or unwillingness to make mistakes? Does he still believe in his simplistic division of the world into good and evil, rather than regular people facing hardship or negative cultural influences becoming more easily seduced by violence and cruelty? I expected more from him. I hope he lives the rest of his life in shame and misery because he has really hurt our future, and has shown no willingness to stop Bush and his administration's hierarchcal approach to the world. Same for Colin Powell.
So you support a liberal internationalist position in the Balkans but that stops under Saddam; Saddam was responsible for state violence, genocide, annexation of neighbouring states and apparent refusal to disarm WMD - at least some of which don't fall under sovereignty.

At least somebody like financeguy is consistently opposed to such interventions because the arguments that get thrown out for or against Iraq are equally applicable to other interventions.
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Old 05-12-2007, 11:25 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
A heck of a lot better than the way things are going here. A thriving economy (the pound is almost twice the dollar), embracing multiculturalism, better healthcare, and less crime.


Crime has become worse under Blair.
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Old 05-12-2007, 12:14 PM   #28
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Who could forget that although if the Conservatives get in next time I think Boris Johnson could give Prezza a run for his money in the entertainment stakes.

I've got mixed feelings about Blair. I think some things have improved during his leadership (mainly the economy) but they haven't lived up to most of the expectations made in 1997, (although which party ever has done?) and there's been too much style and spin over substance. That said if someone had said 20 years ago when Maggie was at her height that Labour would go on to lead the country for over 10 years with the results they've had, noone would have believed it possible so he's been effective at turning the party around and making Labour credible. I always think it was a real shame though that Blair's predecessor John Smith died of a heart attack as I think he would have made a really good PM.

Blair will be remembered for the war in Iraq as much as anything although if the Conservatives had been in power after 9/11 I bet they would have supported Bush and wouldn't have managed it any better.

As for crime, I don't think you can generalize that it's got worse. Certain types may have done such as muggings but I thought other crimes such as house robberies, car theft etc had been reduced in the last 10 years
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Old 05-12-2007, 12:48 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
[B]A heck of a lot better than the way things are going here. A thriving economy (the pound is almost twice the dollar)
That's pretty much always been the case and has nothing to do with Blair. The Brits keep their pound artificially high. The fact the disparity is now greater is a reflection on the US dollar going down, not on Blair enacting some marvelous economic reforms.


Quote:
embracing multiculturalism,
LOL!

Quote:
better healthcare,
What has Blair personally done in this regard?

Blair was a great politician and not a great Prime Minister, IMO. He has been able to create the perception that things are better, but concretely speaking, what exactly did he do to improve the situation domestically? He did a great job with Northern Ireland - that's pretty much the only thing that obviously stands out.
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:05 PM   #30
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yeah. and you guys call me a puppy.
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