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Old 08-12-2005, 02:18 AM   #31
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I know this may stem from a corny movie, but these principles are very good, IMO.

Samurai Code --- Bushido
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Old 08-12-2005, 02:19 AM   #32
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I like men with as much sensitivity as possible as much as the next female, but men risk (?) being or seeming entirely unmasculine if it is these things on their own without a bit (or a lot) of the counter to balance it.

So yeah, all that sensitivity crap, but they must be strong, be confident, be able to take charge, to provide, to work hard, is not afraid to get dirty, to know right from wrong, to change roles as needed...all of it. The last one on changing roles as needed is more about being able to be what they want when it's needed. I dont want to know men who cannot partake at all in any stereotypical man activity. Call me a ...I dont know, lol, but I want to know a man can entertain his mates with sport or the pub or whatever and also wash up and vacuum. A man who is one of these roles all the time is a problem, but one who can be more than mr sensitive or mr bastardballs is what I want. I have to confess that excessively effeminate men bother me as much as arsehole shitheads. I really get uncomfortable feeling I have larger balls than the man, though. And I dont mean literally, lol.
So basically you want a man who can be everything and anything. How heartening. Something tells me I wouldn't live up to your ideal, as I am neither particularly sensitive nor particularly capable (assuming that the two are polar opposites).
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Old 08-12-2005, 03:27 AM   #33
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There is a fine line between manly and camp ~ case in point Captain Kirk
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Old 08-12-2005, 04:15 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kieran McConville


So basically you want a man who can be everything and anything. How heartening. Something tells me I wouldn't live up to your ideal, as I am neither particularly sensitive nor particularly capable (assuming that the two are polar opposites).
If I may drop this PC bullshit for one moment, what I desire in a man is one who is not some girly bloody female in a man's body ie, one who cries at the drop of a hat and frankly cannot be manly because he is too busy trying to be some SNAGified woman. Alternatively I do not want one who lives on XXXX and Sargents pies and lives down the local drinking hole with his Harley mates and Mack driving interstate sex deprived fucks of mates who have wolfwhistling as part of their vocabulary.

There is a rather healthy middle ground.
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Old 08-12-2005, 06:29 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


If I may drop this PC bullshit for one moment, what I desire in a man is one who is not some girly bloody female in a man's body ie, one who cries at the drop of a hat and frankly cannot be manly because he is too busy trying to be some SNAGified woman. Alternatively I do not want one who lives on XXXX and Sargents pies and lives down the local drinking hole with his Harley mates and Mack driving interstate sex deprived fucks of mates who have wolfwhistling as part of their vocabulary.


damn.

ever think of writing an opinion column? that's some powerful writing!
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Old 08-12-2005, 07:09 AM   #36
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Well, it's what I like to see in a man. It's what a man should be, for his own sake as well as other people around him. The ideal man is kind, gentle, compassionate, feels genuine emotion, is bright, articulate and fun to be around.
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Old 08-12-2005, 08:04 AM   #37
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A man who is not afraid to make a commitment!!!


THREE CHREERS FOR THIS GUY




wow, now that is a manly man.

in the same vein as some of your comments here, I think I equate masculinity/manliness with confidence (not to be confused with arrogance). It's feeling secure in your identity without relying on some "hyper-masculine" persona. I could probably say the same about women. Maybe I'm arguing authenticity is more important than manliness or femininity.

There is an interesting book written by an anthropologist about masculinity that demonstrates that in all cultures, manliness is something you have to "win" through undergoing a painful rite of passage, performing dangerous/courageous acts, etc...and you can lose it by showing weakness. Femininity, however, is simply attained through biological processes of menstration, pregnancy, etc, and is less precarious. So a male presidential candidate who bursts into tears over something mundane suffers a greater stigma about not being manly than a woman who varies from her gender role and is a "tomboy." I've digressed...
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Old 08-12-2005, 08:15 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by ruffian

...I think I equate masculinity/manliness with confidence (not to be confused with arrogance). It's feeling secure in your identity without relying on some "hyper-masculine" persona.
I think you're on to something there, Ruffian. I'm very leery of traditional gender labels, and so I find a man "masculine," I think, when he seems happy to be a man and has made his own decisions about what is "masculine" for him, rather than have masculinity dictated to him by society/media. An authentic, individualized masculinity is the best kind, IMO.

At the risk of embarrassing my absent gentleman by saying this, I find him to be quite masculine for precisely the above reasons. He rejects about "traditional" masculinity what he finds to be restrictive, unfair, or simply uncomfortable while embracing what he has deemed to be constructive about it. He's intelligent enough to choose for himself what it means to be a man, which is the best way, I think, to be masculine (or feminine, really...a "feminine" woman is one who's secure and happy in being a woman and knows what it means for her).

To veer off this subject a bit, I think that one of the problems between the sexes these days is that so few women seem to really like men (and vice versa). Sure, straight women are, theoretically, attracted to men, but sometimes I wonder if these straight women actually make an effort to appreciate and understand masculinity, if they actually enjoy the company of men. There is more to "straight-ness" (or "gay-ness" for that matter) than sexual/biological attraction; to me, I'm not sure a woman can actually be called heterosexual if she doesn't actually like men. (And, again, vice versa; I know quite a few straight guys who don't actually seem to like women.)

Anyway, as Ruffian said quite well and more succinctly, a masculine man (or a feminine woman) is one who's comfortable with himself (or herself) and has an authentic, self-chosen gender identity. It has less to do with grooming habits, political attitudes, etc., and more to do with confidence. Gay men can be masculine. Effeminate men can be masculine. And a bench-pressing, sports-car-driving man can be not masculine at all.
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Old 08-12-2005, 08:27 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by pax


but sometimes I wonder if these straight women actually make an effort to appreciate and understand masculinity, if they actually enjoy the company of men.
you know, this is a complicated issue. i honestly think that often male-female communication is like people from two different worlds trying to communicate (and there's lots of literature on this--some sophisticated theories that go beyond the mars/venus stuff). And when I'm in those moments, I would really prefer to talk to a woman. On the other hand, I absolutely adore men and am attracted to their "otherness." So maybe women's amibivalence, and in turn, men's ambivalence about women, is rooted in confusion. we communicate quite differently, we have different needs in relationships, different needs for intimacy. it's amazing the we actually get together and breed from time to time
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Old 08-12-2005, 08:29 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by ruffian


i honestly think that often male-female communication is like people from two different worlds trying to communicate (and there's lots of literature on this--some sophisticated theories that go beyond the mars/venus stuff). And when I'm in those moments, I would really prefer to talk to a woman. On the other hand, I absolutely adore men and am attracted to their "otherness." So maybe women's amibivalence, and in turn, men's ambivalence about women, is rooted in confusion. we communicate quite differently, we have different needs in relationships, different needs for intimacy. it's amazing the we actually get together and breed from time to time
LOL, so true.

BTW...super-jealous that you saw U2 in Glasgow at the same time as Ewen and I didn't!
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Old 08-12-2005, 08:46 AM   #41
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pax, what a shock to meet him--and then be 2 people down the rail from him during the show...it's a small interference world. the GA admission for that show was so crazy...people *running* up and down steep stairs at full tilt...

sorry for being off the off-topic, everyone.
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Old 08-12-2005, 11:47 AM   #42
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The question is flawed.

foray
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Old 08-13-2005, 06:15 AM   #43
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I think a man being honest w/ a woman in a sensitive, kind way is "manly", rather than being cold/evasive in some effort to avoid the situation or whatever. Honesty up front hurts much less in the long run.

There's also a huge difference between that and brutal honesty and meanness

Being a good listener and friend to a woman (or to another man) is very "manly"
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:22 AM   #44
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Playgirl's hunks? The hairy, chubby & poor!

BY RIVKA BUKOWSKY
NYDAILY NEWS WRITER

Forget waxed chests and rock-hard abs. A new survey finds ladies like their men scruffy, a wee bit chubby - and definitely not a metrosexual.

Playgirl asked 2,000 of its readers what they find sexy in a man and the answers were surprising: 42% said they thought love handles were kind of sexy and 47% approved of chest hair.

The mag, which often features toned, hairless males in its beefcake photo spreads, is now searching for a man who meets readers' standards.

Average Joes everywhere can send photos to models@playgirlmag.com to compete for a shot at a pictorial in a future issue.

Rich playboys need not apply - only 4% of women said the size of a man's wallet mattered. Metrosexuals are also out: 73% want a guy who is "rough around the edges."

"This survey shows that the guy who's most attractive to our readers is not your average Hollywood hunk," said Playgirl editrix Jill Sieracki. "It's the average Joe who came up on top. Women are practical about their choices, and they're smart."

New York matchmaker Janis Spindel, a self-described specialist at setting up "highly successful, well-educated, attractive professionals," confirmed the survey's findings. "It's scary, but women don't care [about looks]," she said. "Men are very superficial and very shallow."

But Spindel disputed the claim that women don't care about finding a rich man: "Women want a man who makes more money than they do," she said. "They want to be able to live a comfortable lifestyle."

PS, I would like some of the men here to send their pictures in
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Old 08-17-2005, 06:00 AM   #45
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Quote:
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PS, I would like some of the men here to send their pictures in
Yeah I'll be right on that. Just need to find someone with a camera.
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