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Old 08-11-2005, 10:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth
I don't know, the older I get the less worried I am about my masculinity. It really isn't an issue anymore.
Probably once the testosterone induced haze of adolescence wears off and men start thinking more clearly.
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Old 08-11-2005, 10:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Probably once the testosterone induced haze of adolescence wears off and men start thinking more clearly.

I don't know...I've seen plenty of men in their 30's and beyond who still act like they've just hit puberty


But on a serious note, I do agree with you. I can see my 20 year old son coming out of that haze and the changes are all positive
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Old 08-11-2005, 10:45 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Probably once the testosterone induced haze of adolescence wears off and men start thinking more clearly.

when does that happen?

early 30s?

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Old 08-11-2005, 11:50 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

early 30s?
Not always
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Old 08-11-2005, 12:04 PM   #20
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Re: By Popular Request: The Manly Thread

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Ok, so....let's dive in. I'll start that man thread

What makes a man manly? How do you know? What makes him less than a man?

Being mannered? Calm? Gentle? Well-dressed? If so, why?

Do you have problems with what you take to be popular conceptions of manhood? Why so?

Some have suggested that partriarchy, a "John Wayne" type definition of manliness, is itself a cause of war. What say you?
It's funny, but in the vein of old movie star images of masculinity (30's, 40's, 50's) and you'll see that it was perfectly natural and expected that a macho, "masculine" man was also very well dressed and well groomed (see Bogey, Peck, Stewart, etc.) this probably had a lot to do with the general culture of the time (less casual than today) but it is still interesting to bring up, none the less. As a girl I'm not particuarly impressed by the boorish slob or the ultra metrosexual, the old movie masculinity does have its appeal.

I don't really have great insight into the gay community and their impressions of masculinity, however I was reading personal ads in a free community paper just for fun, and in the "men seeking men" section you would be shocked at how many people called themselves, or were looking for, guys that were "straight acting". What that means I am not sure.
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Old 08-11-2005, 12:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife



I don't know...I've seen plenty of men in their 30's and beyond who still act like they've just hit puberty

Anyone we know?
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Old 08-11-2005, 03:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
It's funny, but in the vein of old movie star images of masculinity (30's, 40's, 50's) and you'll see that it was perfectly natural and expected that a macho, "masculine" man was also very well dressed and well groomed (see Bogey, Peck, Stewart, etc.) this probably had a lot to do with the general culture of the time (less casual than today) but it is still interesting to bring up, none the less. As a girl I'm not particuarly impressed by the boorish slob or the ultra metrosexual, the old movie masculinity does have its appeal.
I knew it! Take that 21st Century gender relations

Now wheres my fedora.....
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Old 08-11-2005, 06:15 PM   #23
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For me, a mature, capable guy who does the right thing even when no one's looking.
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Old 08-11-2005, 06:38 PM   #24
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Re: By Popular Request: The Manly Thread

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Is a refusal to use violence "unmanly"?
No. The only time I'd see violence as okay from a man is if he were using it to defend himself or his loved ones. But guys who are just violent towards people for no reason other than that they seem to think that makes them more of a man or something...yeah, so far from being true, that . It's immature and sad, is what it is.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Is being gay (I ask this because I damn sure know far too many folks out there believe this to be true)?
No. I fail to see exactly how someone's sexual orientation determines how much of a man they are. I'd be interested in hearing the reasoning behind that thought process from those who actually think that way.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Being mannered? Calm? Gentle? Well-dressed? If so, why?
Yet again, no. It disturbs me to think that being a gentle, kind soul is considered an "unmanly" trait by some. Yes, god forbid we have guys out there who actually seem to care about their fellow man and try and do good things in this world.

And as for your looks, just like with the gay thing, I'm not sure how what you wear determines how much of a man you are.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Do you have problems with what you take to be popular conceptions of manhood? Why so?
Yes (if that wasn't obvious to anyone here by now ). I fail to understand how acting like a jerk and thinking showing any sort of feeling other than a violent one is wrong is an attractive, cool thing. It scares me when people act like that, it doesn't make me want to be within 10 feet of them. Why do some people think that kind of personality is a good thing, an example of a "true man"?

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Some have suggested that partriarchy, a "John Wayne" type definition of manliness, is itself a cause of war. What say you?
I think it can be a factor, yes. Guys trying to prove just how tough they are will sometimes go to any lengths possible to prove it, and some guys tend to not feel like true men if they aren't willing to be the protector of their family and stuff, so...yeah, I think it can be a role in that sort of thing.

Heh, this last question makes me think of a George Carlin bit one time in which he was talking about guys equating large weapons with "penis envy" or something like that. Funny stuff.

Angela
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Old 08-11-2005, 07:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I knew it! Take that 21st Century gender relations

Now wheres my fedora.....
I was thinking purely down the lines of outward appearance, which shows what a deep and thoughtful person I must be.
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Old 08-11-2005, 10:43 PM   #26
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Ok I've stood back because I didn't know what I was going say but I'm going to try my best at what I think is a very abstract idea.
Masculinity:

If you can walk away from a fight then do so. Anyone can throw a punch, but it takes a man to walk away with dignity. One of the first things I learn in Tae Kwon Do, if you can avoid it, do so. I can probably defend myself against almost anyone, but unless my life or someone else's life is in danger I will not fight.

Cry. Crying is reality, choking back tears is just pride. Lying is not manly.

Ignoring your appearance is ignorance. Why should we ask the one's we're attracted to, to keep their appearance if we can't do the same.

Whatever you ask of your significant other, provide the same.
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Old 08-11-2005, 11:18 PM   #27
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Re: By Popular Request: The Manly Thread

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Ok, so....let's dive in. I'll start that man thread

What makes a man manly? How do you know? What makes him less than a man?
He himself having a wide definition of 'manliness' makes a man 'manly'. As far as I'm concerned.

Still behaving like a macho little adolescent twirp makes doesn't make him manly--it makes him a twirp.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling

Is a refusal to use violence "unmanly"?
Hell, no.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling

Is being gay (I ask this because I damn sure know far too many folks out there believe this to be true)?
No.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling

Being mannered? Calm? Gentle? Well-dressed? If so, why?
Big pluses there. Simply because it's more self-aware and socially aware, hence more mature.


Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling

Do you have problems with what you take to be popular conceptions of manhood? Why so?
Yes. Because most of the conceptions of manhood portrayed in the popular media and Hollywood are adolescent behavior glorified and given advocacy as apropriate adult behavior.


Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling

Some have suggested that partriarchy, a "John Wayne" type definition of manliness, is itself a cause of war. What say you?
Enjoy.
A direct cause of war; hmm. There is probably some connection, especially when large numbers of men espouse the attitude.
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Old 08-11-2005, 11:41 PM   #28
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I like men with as much sensitivity as possible as much as the next female, but men risk (?) being or seeming entirely unmasculine if it is these things on their own without a bit (or a lot) of the counter to balance it.

So yeah, all that sensitivity crap, but they must be strong, be confident, be able to take charge, to provide, to work hard, is not afraid to get dirty, to know right from wrong, to change roles as needed...all of it. The last one on changing roles as needed is more about being able to be what they want when it's needed. I dont want to know men who cannot partake at all in any stereotypical man activity. Call me a ...I dont know, lol, but I want to know a man can entertain his mates with sport or the pub or whatever and also wash up and vacuum. A man who is one of these roles all the time is a problem, but one who can be more than mr sensitive or mr bastardballs is what I want. I have to confess that excessively effeminate men bother me as much as arsehole shitheads. I really get uncomfortable feeling I have larger balls than the man, though. And I dont mean literally, lol.
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Old 08-12-2005, 01:33 AM   #29
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I wonder what you would think about equating manliness to being a good leader?

In my opinion, the best leaders are good teams players, and take charge when neccesary, building on strengths and limits.


MY personal definitions for manliness, though not universal, more related to me


Honor (what did you expect to be first?)
Chivalry//Respect
Maturity
Knowing when and how/being capabable of being childish
Social capability - the ablity to communicate effectively
Loyalty/Fidelity
Benevolence
Unflappable in the face of negative emotional situations - as in, doesn't get angry at silly things, etc., and is competent in a crisis situation.
Sensitive - to social situations, family, to women and their point of view
Can express emotions properly
Is not afraid to be in love
Capable of living on his own (such as, taking care of yourself well enough to take care of others)
Repsects Family/Traditions, yet capable of being an individual
Not influenced by bribes/easy way out
When/if he builds a family, he puts his family's needs above his, while being able to maintain his health and sanity and proper state of being.
Makes an earnest effort at doing the best he can do for the given situation.
Knows how to make his wife know she married the right guy, forever.

**General Competence in life**


Knowledgable to the extent of knowing what's going on, and if not, getting that information in due time.


Of course, one defining thing, for a man, perhaps, would be being successful in whatever venture he sets out in.




But, however, I agree with Dr. Teeth.


Just like in the art of war - the best way to win a war is never fight a battle...
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Old 08-12-2005, 01:55 AM   #30
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As far as anti manliness goes......


Cowardice
Running away from problems, be it leaving behind your family, or escaping into drugs of sorts
Dishonesty
Disloyalty
(However, self preservation, SINCERE self preservation is an exception. Or, say, if you were a subordinate of an unethical/unmoral leadership (according to your own definition), then you could break ties with such a thing.
It is very manly to stand up for what you believe in, regardless of who you are, IMO. However, other circumstances can take away from the true level of manliness...)
Refusal to listen to others, especially those who have less power than yo do
Supreme arrogance//supreme insecurity//weak ego
Insulting others for enjoyment, harassment
Prejudice
INdulging in things to an unhealthy extend
Letting other people take the blame for your actions

PLAYING THE ROLE OF THE VICTIM
I cannot stand "men" who call themselves the victim of so many things...
Excessive whinning...

Being lazy
Being undutiful to your family
Neglecting family/wife/children

Indulging in immaturity - being a "boy' your whole life.
Thinking women are only for sex - shows underdeveloped brain + sense of purpose
Easily influenced by many - bribes, favors, etc

A poor leader (in that, one who uses his skills for bettering his own self interests, rather than those who support him)
(being someone who is not inclined to lead, but prefers to follow and be a subordinate... that is not neccesarily unmanly)
Someone who commits blatant offenses, such as hate crims, or,most of all, rape. In my book, rape is the most unmanly thing, because you force something that you could not win on your own, not even talking about disrespect to women. When you violate someone else, you loose yourself to corruption.
Internal corruption




Asks (or demands/orders) of others what he himself would not do





(ovbiously, my defnitions of manliness have a lot to do with a person's character, etc. But that is honestly how I see things, and how I would address someone in real life. If someone was dishonest, etc, I would see them as unmanly, a coward, etc)
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