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Old 03-24-2006, 10:07 AM   #31
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
As someone explained it on the news last night, it is illegal to serve more in a bar to a person who is already intoxicated.


this is true. i went to bartending school (don't ask), and they told us this, and i thought it was silly, but what can you do?

i have seen intoxicated people refused drinks. at a gay bar. in a city. where everyone walks home.

it just seems silly to me, these alcohol laws. i am as fascist as anyone about drinking and driving, and i could maybe see the police busting people leaving bars with keys in their hands, but come on, being drunk in a bar. it's like being full at a restaurant.
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:31 AM   #32
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i have seen intoxicated people refused drinks. at a gay bar.
How does being in a gay bar change the law about overserving a customer...?
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:37 AM   #33
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How does being in a gay bar change the law about overserving a customer...?


not much. was just adding some local color.
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:47 AM   #34
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How is a decision as to whether a person is intoxicated or not made? And who makes the decision?

Obviously there are standards to assess whether a person is drunk in charge of a vehicle - should the same standards be applied where there is no indication that they have intended driving a vehicle whle intoxicated?

To me this again raises the issue of government bureaucrats and the nanny state thinking up new ways of spending TAXPAYERS' MONEY.
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:58 AM   #35
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Originally posted by financeguy
How is a decision as to whether a person is intoxicated or not made? And who makes the decision?
I've been wondering the same thing. I know that bartenders have training in this area, but it's still very subjective. There have been times, no doubt, where I have been in bars, and probably should have been cut off, but I never have been. I've seen many others cut off, though, and for very little reason, IMO.

I also wonder what will happen if policies like this are not legally challenged, or if the challenges fall in favour of the authorities. How will this impact the ability of bar owners to run a profitable business?
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:23 PM   #36
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How is a decision as to whether a person is intoxicated or not made? And who makes the decision?
It is a combination of objective and subjective factors.

Objectively, there is blood alcohol level. Obviously, it cannot be tested until there is probable cause, so subjective standards are used. A reasonable person standard is then the measuring stick for conclusions drawn from observed behavior. Staggering or slurred speech may help draw such a conclusion.

Bottom line - absent a non-invasive way to test objectively, we will always need to rely on the subjective standards.
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:34 PM   #37
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


It is a combination of objective and subjective factors.

Objectively, there is blood alcohol level. Obviously, it cannot be tested until there is probable cause, so subjective standards are used. A reasonable person standard is then the measuring stick for conclusions drawn from observed behavior. Staggering or slurred speech may help draw such a conclusion.

Bottom line - absent a non-invasive way to test objectively, we will always need to rely on the subjective standards.
All of the above makes sense - although interestingly some jurisdictions have implemented random breath testing for motorists - i.e. no probable cause is required.

However I do not think it reasonable to apply the same tests to public intoxication and drunk driving.

I feel public intoxication should be legally defined to encompass only situations where the person is creating an annoyance, hassling or threatening people, etc.
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Old 03-24-2006, 04:38 PM   #38
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I guess it technically is still public intoxication - bars being public accommodations. This will put a huge burden on the bar owners.
Yes, bars are public accomodations. But not all of the people in there are going to be driving.
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Old 03-24-2006, 07:09 PM   #39
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I saw this on the news last night and I think this is unfair to have cops combing bars for intoxicated patrons. It's one thing to prevent these folks from getting behind the wheels of a car, but I feel it is a bit of a violation of a person's rights to frequent a public bar to drink alcohol. Especially if this person is not a nuisance drunk but minding his/her own business. Cops can sit outside waiting for someone intoxicated to exit the bar and attempt to get behind the wheel of a car to test and/or arrest them.

I mean, get a grip.....people can't smoke outside or in many places inside anymore. Now if there is the threat of being arrested for getting drunk in a bar, there's nothing fun to do anymore! Seriously, what's next? The alcohol police will be expanding through our neighborhoods entering our backyard BBQs, private dinner parties, gatherings, concerts and celebrations arresting any folks who become intoxicated?
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Old 03-25-2006, 01:23 AM   #40
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i smell some horseshit

just a new way to get more money outta people from fines.
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Old 03-25-2006, 01:31 AM   #41
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways
Ah yes, this story reminds me of bar laws in college.

In Champaign, one must be 19 years old to enter a bar. (drinking age still 21) The police would raid bars and give tickets to anyone under 21 who was within an arm's length of a drink. Doesn't matter if you are drinking it or not. The arm's length was enough to get you a $275 dollar ticket. Really, a college bar? In Champaign? Everyone is within an arm's length of a drink. What a scam.

I never got caught but my sister racked up 2 tickets before turning 21.
fucking college police

im paying $10,000 to go up here every semester, and they gotta bust their asses to give be chickenshit parking tickets, such as "left wheel to curb". WTF is that?! How the fuck was i supposed to know i couldnt park that way? Also, the boro cops here show no mercy when it comes to drinking. if they catch you with a .03 BAC 1 hour before your 21st birthday, they wont even hesitate to give you an underage. They also wait around bars so they can catch people, who chose not to drive drunk, who stumble walking home.

bastards!!!
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Old 03-25-2006, 02:12 AM   #42
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Fines, income taxes, sales taxes, local state and county taxes, license fees, registration fees, tickets, credit card interest, loan interest, ridiculous oil prices......we're being taxed and nickel and dimed to death. What the hell is this world coming to?
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Old 03-25-2006, 02:39 AM   #43
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If everyone simply obeyed the law, none of these fines would be necessary.

The world would be a better place.
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Old 03-25-2006, 05:28 AM   #44
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ive been to bartending school too, and it is indeed illegal for a bartender to serve to the point of intoxication and over.

if a drunk person gets in a car and gets into an accident on the way home, the victim can sue the driver, the bartender, and the bar because they all performed illegal acts.

bartenders must go through something called Tips training, http://www.gettips.com/ to learn how to determine if someone is drunk, and what measures to take. Getting Tips certified provides some protection for the bartender and the bar.

having cops in the bar to help prevent this is just another measure the bars can take to protect themselves. being at public bar is not like being at your private home, if you get wasted at a bar you have to leave at some point and when you do its public intoxication and you are putting people in danger.
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Old 03-25-2006, 08:36 AM   #45
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I was a bartender at a club a few years ago when i was told by my supervisor to refuse a patron drinks if he came up again,the poor guy came up and asked for his scooner...and my god...i went pale and told him sorry sir,i can't do that,you are intoxicated and he started screaming "Fuck you C****,B****" More profanities were thrown my way, the guy got into a fight , taken to a cop shop ...all over a scooner!

The guy was drunk but not wasted IMHO!

When my shift was over i asked my Boss how come he asked me to do that and he said it was the law and it was to reduce.......get this.......disorderly behaviour,verbal/physical abuse!!

I agree it's just another measure of revenue raising!!!
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