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Old 02-18-2005, 02:45 PM   #16
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did you mean to quote me?
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Old 02-18-2005, 02:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
did you mean to quote me?
No my bad. Fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out.

I think your new avatar had me confused.
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Old 02-18-2005, 03:12 PM   #18
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

I think your new avatar had me confused.

well, now that Brit's a grammy-winner and all ...

it's also the 7th sign of the apocalypse: "and lo, the sea turned to blood, and the whore of babylon was adorned with gold statuettes"
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Old 02-18-2005, 03:13 PM   #19
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Old 02-18-2005, 03:15 PM   #20
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Old 02-18-2005, 03:23 PM   #21
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actually, the other night i had a very vivid dream where i was eating at a steakhouse in DC with one of my best friends, and Britney was our waitress.

we both commented on how her career has really taken a noisedive, but she was very sweet and nice and peppered her sentences with "y'all."

then she fucked up my order. brought me chicken when i asked for steak. i wanted to ignore it, since Brit was so sweet and all, but my best friend insisted that we correct it. she called Brit over to the table, and insisted that my order was wrong. the smile fell from poor Brit's face and she insisted that i ordered chicken. my friend demanded to see the pad of paper upon which waiters writer their orders. Brit refused. she then stood up, and slapped Brit across the kisser. Brit responded with a swift kick to her knee. a girlfight ensued.

then i woke up.
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Old 02-18-2005, 03:30 PM   #22
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Where is there proof that the present system works?

""it is not a school's role to explicitly forbid sex.""

You can't teach a kid right from wrong in a public school? Unless you don't think teenage sex is wrong. Can someone please make a case that teenage sex is good? Children need to be told right from wrong. We don't all agree on what's right and wrong, but the vast majority of Americans would agree teen sex is wrong and not desirable for a healthy society. When they're 18 they can do whatever the hell they want.

""""you sound like a George Bush "conservative" -- there are no morals the government can't instill, no religiously oriented program the government can't fund."""""

Did I mention religion anywhere? This is a typical attack. Typecast someone as religious, then attack them while ignoring the argument.

""""Sounds like that's working really well.""""

We're dealing with sex. Nothing works very well. And single case studies are not proof of anything.

""""""i have never had sex without a condom. not once."""""
I hope that isn't a permanent situation, to not ever experience the real thing

""""Causing teens and preteens to feel guility and ashamed of sex is not how we should be educating our children.""""

They should feel ashamed just as the child who gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar should feel ashamed. I'm sorry if shame and guilt were manipulated incorrectly and abusively by your parents in your childhood but that's how we learned right from wrong.

I'd also like to ask a question. Apart from unwanted pregnancy or disease, what consequences, if any, do you all feel are possible harmful side effects to teenage sex?
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Old 02-18-2005, 03:36 PM   #23
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When they're 18 they can do whatever the hell they want.

Here's where your logic fails. So once they turn 18 are they automatically going to become educated on safe sex? Come on and listen to yourself.
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Old 02-18-2005, 03:39 PM   #24
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We can talk in theory, but the results are in: abstinence-only programs do not work.

I certainly support an open-minded program that talks about abstinence and birth control. Hell...I went to a Catholic HS, and, for those who don't know, contraception is bad. Still, health class brought up contraception, with the usual Catholic disclaimer that it isn't what they believe, but overall knowledge is good.

Ignorance is not bliss.

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Old 02-18-2005, 03:39 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Here's where your logic fails. So once they turn 18 are they automatically going to become educated on safe sex? Come on and listen to yourself.
When they're 18 they don't have to listen anymore
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Old 02-18-2005, 03:44 PM   #26
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When they're 18 they don't have to listen anymore
So then we have a society of 18 year olds having sex spreading disease and getting pregnant because no one ever taught them the basic principles of safe sex.

That's ridiculously stupid.
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Old 02-18-2005, 03:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by drhark
Where is there proof that the present system works?

""it is not a school's role to explicitly forbid sex.""

You can't teach a kid right from wrong in a public school? Unless you don't think teenage sex is wrong. Can someone please make a case that teenage sex is good? Children need to be told right from wrong. We don't all agree on what's right and wrong, but the vast majority of Americans would agree teen sex is wrong and not desirable for a healthy society. When they're 18 they can do whatever the hell they want.

""""you sound like a George Bush "conservative" -- there are no morals the government can't instill, no religiously oriented program the government can't fund."""""

Did I mention religion anywhere? This is a typical attack. Typecast someone as religious, then attack them while ignoring the argument.

""""Sounds like that's working really well.""""

We're dealing with sex. Nothing works very well. And single case studies are not proof of anything.

""""""i have never had sex without a condom. not once."""""
I hope that isn't a permanent situation, to not ever experience the real thing

""""Causing teens and preteens to feel guility and ashamed of sex is not how we should be educating our children.""""

They should feel ashamed just as the child who gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar should feel ashamed. I'm sorry if shame and guilt were manipulated incorrectly and abusively by your parents in your childhood but that's how we learned right from wrong.

I'd also like to ask a question. Apart from unwanted pregnancy or disease, what consequences, if any, do you all feel are possible harmful side effects to teenage sex?

1. no. schools do not teach "moral values" or whatever you want to call them. parents, families, youth groups, they all do that. schools instill knowledge. and it is *especially* when it comes to sex education that information, including the fact that abstience is the only 100% way to prevent pregnancy and STDs, is what the focus of the class should be.

besides, what better way to get kids to have sex than for the school and those oh-so-cool teaches to "forbid" it?

2. i didn't say you were religious, i was drawing an analogy to how bush views government -- as a tool to be weilded to encourage people to adhere to his very strict set of moral values. this is a man who has never vetoed a spending bill. please read more closely. i addressed the argument directly as well.

3. utterly meaningless sentence.

4. until i have a partner whom i can trust and we are totally mongamous and tested and STD free, the condom stays on.

5. guilt and shame are far, far worse than information and education. i want kids to make smart choices, and when presented with the information, it's pretty damn clear that having sex while in high school is a pretty bad decision. you don't need guilt and shame to get kids to abstain; there are perfectly good reasons to abstain, and you're far more likely to get teenagers to listen and understand when you speak to them like adults rather than 6 year olds trying to break into the cookie jar. guilt and shame had nothing to do with my not having sex in high school. i was always against it, for a variety of reasons (not least of which was being gay), but i remember discouraging my friends from having sex not because i thought it was a shameful activity, but because my argument was: you have the rest of your life to have sex, what's the big rush?

6. i don't think teenagers need to comlicate their lives. to me, this is the most compelling reason not to have sex. enjoy being young. enjoy pre-sexual innocence. sex is wonderful; adult relationships are wonderful. they are also complex and contain enormous potential to wreak psychological havoc on your still developing psyche. relax, have fun, be a kid, focus on school and sports and your musical instrument ... you'll be having sex (hopefully) for the rest of your life, but you won't be 16 for much longer. relish this experience now, and relish sex when you're at a more appropriate age.

the longer you wait, the better it will be.
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Old 02-18-2005, 03:50 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by drhark

""""""i have never had sex without a condom. not once."""""
I hope that isn't a permanent situation, to not ever experience the real thing

therein lies a huge part of the problem--all the men who don't want to wear condoms. a condom should not interfere with the intimacy of sex unless you let it. if anything, it should be a sign of respect and responsibility.
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Old 02-18-2005, 03:50 PM   #29
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On a difficult sticky subject like sex education, I fully expect the government to fuck it up.
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Old 02-18-2005, 03:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


So then we have a society of 18 year olds having sex spreading disease and getting pregnant because no one ever taught them the basic principles of safe sex.

That's ridiculously stupid.
Are 18 year olds brainless jelly fish without Big Brother telling them what to do?
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