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Old 01-20-2005, 10:11 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I would be willing to cite examples
Of what? But please do so!
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Old 01-21-2005, 01:21 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I would be willing to cite examples



Of what? But please do so!
Didn't think so.
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Old 01-23-2005, 04:31 AM   #63
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So lets see the whole statement
Quote:
THE PRESIDENT: Well, we had an accountability moment, and that's called the 2004 election. And the American people listened to different assessments made about what was taking place in Iraq, and they looked at the two candidates, and chose me, for which I'm grateful.

Listen, in times of war, things don't go exactly as planned. Some were saying there was no way that Saddam Hussein would be toppled as quickly as we toppled him. Some were saying there would be mass refugee flows and starvation, which didn't happen. [More good news from Iraq here.] My only point is, is that, on a complicated matter such as removing a dictator from power and trying to help achieve democracy, sometimes the unexpected will happen, both good and bad.

And the point is, there has to be a flexible strategy that will enable our commanders on the ground and our diplomats to be able to adjust strategy to meet the needs on the ground, all aiming at an eventual goal, which is a free and democratic Iraq, not in our image, in their image, according to their customs. See, we haven't been — we've been there — sovereignty was transferred in June of 2004. So this has been a sovereign nation in its new form for less than a year. I'm optimistic about it, and so are a lot of other people who were there in Iraq — optimistic about that, being optimistic about the emergence of a free government.

I'm also mindful that it takes a while for democracy to take hold. Witness our own history. We weren't — we certainly were not the perfect democracy and are yet the perfect democracy. Ours is a constitution that said every man — a system that said every man was equal, but in fact, every man wasn't equal for a long period of time in our history. The Articles of Confederation were a bumpy period of time. And my only point is, is that I am realistic about how quickly a society that has been dominated by a tyrant can become a democracy. And therefore, I am more patient than some, but also mindful that we've got to get the Iraqis up and running as quickly as possible, so they can defeat these terrorists.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Jan15.html

That does not seem like an ineloquent buffon speaking, it seems more like a world leader expressing gratitude for re-election and explaining why success in Iraq is important.
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Old 01-23-2005, 05:57 AM   #64
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In fear of derailing this thread, I'll just add a side-comment. There is something that does ruin his grandiose speech somewhat; the fact that he said 'not everyone was equal for a long period of time in history'.

To my knowledge, the president has made it clear that he intends to keep these inequalities.

Ant.

P.S - I do apologize, but reading such a grand, sweeping speech when all he's essentially doing is patting himself on the back a bit too strongly is disconcerting.
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Old 01-23-2005, 06:03 AM   #65
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To play advocate, the very fact he believes that all the American public are now equal speaks volumes.

I was going to sidetrack on his last comment which was once again about terorism. Just how much does terrorism affect the world, when compared in the bigger picture? The mere fact it exists means it needs addressing, but not at the cost of more pressing matters. And that does not mean it in itself is NOT pressing, but it does seem, tiredly, to be all he really cares about. It's a big old world and any leader in America has a big job. Is it too big for him?
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Old 01-23-2005, 06:11 AM   #66
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Well, at the risk of sounding cynical, hasn't he always pitched himself as a war-time president? God knows he can't manage the economy, and it seems to me that he did win his second term because of a somewhat stronger (and even I am willing to concede to that) stance on the War on Terrorism. Kerry, by comparison, was quite weak in this respect.

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Old 01-23-2005, 06:21 AM   #67
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Kerry certainly had a few weak areas. I'm glad I never had to pick between them. It's a luxury in some ways to stand back and criticise from this far away lol.

I'm really not contributing much to this thread, huh? Better depart
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Old 01-23-2005, 06:32 AM   #68
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I would say that Bush won because of the whole terrorism thing, he was stronger than Kerry on this. The biggest issue in this election was terrorism, not the economy. It's been the economy in recent elections, as famously illustrated by the theme of the Clinton campaign.
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Old 01-23-2005, 10:14 AM   #69
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Bush on paper always sounds more eloquent than his spoken voice because they leave out all the ummms, ahhhs, and pauses.
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Old 01-23-2005, 12:21 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America
Of what? But please do so!
"A Martian gathering evidence about American society, simply by monitoring our television, would certainly assume that there were more gay people in America than there are evangelical Christians."

-- Michael Medved

GLAAD sent a letter to the media outlining a list of do's and don'ts for the CBS show "The Education of Max Bickford," which introduced a character named Steve who undergoes a sex-change operation to become a woman named Erica.

It suggested:

- Do use female pronouns when referring to Erica.
- Don't use quotation marks around [the words] female, woman, Erica, or female pronouns when referring to Helen Shaver's character.

The packet of material the media received was a list of "problematic terminology" such as "he-she", "she-male", "trannie", and "gender-bender."

Instead, the word "transition" should be used instead of "sex change" and "intersex person" instead of "hermaphrodite".
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Old 01-23-2005, 12:44 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
"A Martian gathering evidence about American society, simply by monitoring our television, would certainly assume that there were more gay people in America than there are evangelical Christians."

-- Michael Medved

GLAAD sent a letter to the media outlining a list of do's and don'ts for the CBS show "The Education of Max Bickford," which introduced a character named Steve who undergoes a sex-change operation to become a woman named Erica.

It suggested:

- Do use female pronouns when referring to Erica.
- Don't use quotation marks around [the words] female, woman, Erica, or female pronouns when referring to Helen Shaver's character.

The packet of material the media received was a list of "problematic terminology" such as "he-she", "she-male", "trannie", and "gender-bender."

Instead, the word "transition" should be used instead of "sex change" and "intersex person" instead of "hermaphrodite".
So one quote from a conservative radio talk show host and a movie I've never heard of constitute the huge gay agenda? If this is all you can come up with then I don't think you have to worry.
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Old 01-23-2005, 02:16 PM   #72
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So you want me to go on?

Perhaps you've heard of Will & Grace.

They had an episode that mocked meetings of ex-homosexuals and those who wanted to conform to the norms of society, and seeked true answers.

A former homosexual named Mike Haley who now works with Focus on the Family, wrote the following letter to Jon Kinnally, the executive story editor of Will and Grace:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear Mr. Kinnally:

I am writing to request a meeting with you regarding a recent episode of Will & Grace. The show in question grossly misrepresented thousands of individuals struggling to come out of homosexuality. As a former gay man, and now a national spokesmanand expert on homosexuality and youth issues for Focus on the Family - one of the country's largest organizations, who, among other things, assists gays and lesbians who desire to be heterosexual - I know first-hand how frustrating and painful it is to be mocked by those who haven't taken the time to find out what the process is all about. I'm specifically talking about references in the show to former homosexuals, and those wrestling with their sexual identity, as "freaks," "self-loathing closet cases," "morally wrong," as members of "cults." Nowhere in the episode are we portrayed as honest men and women seeking help.

You may vehemently disagree with this position, but I'd at least like the opportunity to sit down and talk to you about it. Our conversation may not change your mind about the possibility of coming out of homosexuality, but at the very least it will put a real face behind the caricature you depicted on prime-time TV. And in the end, hopefully it will encourage you to think twice before ridiculing the belief systems of those who differ from you. With that in mind, please respectfully consider my request.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Mr. Kinally's response to this letter was anything but respectful.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear Mr. Haley:

I received your letter dated June 9, and was very interested in your point of view. The issues you raised are the very same ones that we on the Will & Grace writing staff debate on a daily basis. Our decision to present the story on the ex-gay ministry was solely in the interest of creating the most comedic episode possible. And it was certainly not our intention to offend you in any way. But come on, Mike, even you've got to admit that fags trying to pretend they're straight is pretty funny.

In response to your request for a meeting, well, I think I can read between the eyes on that one. I'm about 6'1", brown hair, green eyes, and I'm into rollerblading, baking cookies, and cleaning up afterwards. My dislikes include game-playing, negative attitudes, and condoms.

If any of this interests you, I can be found every Sunday at the Brunch and Beer Bust at the Motherlode in West Hollywood. I do hope you show, because I like you, I am an expert on homosexuality, and in my expert opinion, this "hard-to-get thing" you're playing is Hot, Hot, Hot!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Mike's letter was sincere and thoughtful, and he was mocked by this nutjob.
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Old 01-23-2005, 02:24 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

GLAAD sent a letter to the media outlining a list of do's and don'ts for the CBS show "The Education of Max Bickford," which introduced a character named Steve who undergoes a sex-change operation to become a woman named Erica.
So an LGBT organisation sent a letter to the media asking them to show just a little bit of sensitivity and respect to transsexual people and that's an indication of some huge, threatening gay agenda? Err...what?
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Old 01-23-2005, 02:32 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
So you want me to go on?

Perhaps you've heard of Will & Grace.

They had an episode that mocked meetings of ex-homosexuals and those who wanted to conform to the norms of society, and seeked true answers.

A former homosexual named Mike Haley who now works with Focus on the Family, wrote the following letter to Jon Kinnally, the executive story editor of Will and Grace:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear Mr. Kinnally:

I am writing to request a meeting with you regarding a recent episode of Will & Grace. The show in question grossly misrepresented thousands of individuals struggling to come out of homosexuality. As a former gay man, and now a national spokesmanand expert on homosexuality and youth issues for Focus on the Family - one of the country's largest organizations, who, among other things, assists gays and lesbians who desire to be heterosexual - I know first-hand how frustrating and painful it is to be mocked by those who haven't taken the time to find out what the process is all about. I'm specifically talking about references in the show to former homosexuals, and those wrestling with their sexual identity, as "freaks," "self-loathing closet cases," "morally wrong," as members of "cults." Nowhere in the episode are we portrayed as honest men and women seeking help.

You may vehemently disagree with this position, but I'd at least like the opportunity to sit down and talk to you about it. Our conversation may not change your mind about the possibility of coming out of homosexuality, but at the very least it will put a real face behind the caricature you depicted on prime-time TV. And in the end, hopefully it will encourage you to think twice before ridiculing the belief systems of those who differ from you. With that in mind, please respectfully consider my request.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Mr. Kinally's response to this letter was anything but respectful.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear Mr. Haley:

I received your letter dated June 9, and was very interested in your point of view. The issues you raised are the very same ones that we on the Will & Grace writing staff debate on a daily basis. Our decision to present the story on the ex-gay ministry was solely in the interest of creating the most comedic episode possible. And it was certainly not our intention to offend you in any way. But come on, Mike, even you've got to admit that fags trying to pretend they're straight is pretty funny.

In response to your request for a meeting, well, I think I can read between the eyes on that one. I'm about 6'1", brown hair, green eyes, and I'm into rollerblading, baking cookies, and cleaning up afterwards. My dislikes include game-playing, negative attitudes, and condoms.

If any of this interests you, I can be found every Sunday at the Brunch and Beer Bust at the Motherlode in West Hollywood. I do hope you show, because I like you, I am an expert on homosexuality, and in my expert opinion, this "hard-to-get thing" you're playing is Hot, Hot, Hot!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Mike's letter was sincere and thoughtful, and he was mocked by this nutjob.
Will & Grace is comedy. They make fun of homosexuals, heterosexuals, and in this case "ex-homosexuals". They are an equal oppurtunity comedy, by no means a huge homosexual agenda machine.



Quote:
They had an episode that mocked meetings of ex-homosexuals and those who wanted to conform to the norms of society, and seeked true answers.
So after you conquer the gays are you going to make everyone coform to YOUR norms of society? And what ture answers are you talking about?

Are you capable of being an ex-straight?
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Old 01-23-2005, 02:42 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America
Will & Grace is comedy. They make fun of homosexuals, heterosexuals, and in this case "ex-homosexuals". They are an equal oppurtunity comedy, by no means a huge homosexual agenda machine.
You seem to be ignoring the entire letter. You can't honestly think that reply was respectful, can you?

Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America
So after you conquer the gays are you going to make everyone coform to YOUR norms of society? And what ture answers are you talking about?
Perhaps some of them wanted a more satisfying life, and hoped to find it through programs that were offered. Your whole conquering thing is a little bizzare, nobody is conquering anybody. Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything.

Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America
Are you capable of being an ex-straight?
I don't make myself capable of it, and that's out of the question.
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