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Old 07-29-2004, 04:22 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


It is simplistic and naive. He is playing to the sound bite, not articulating a plan.

But, that is what gets votes....
Perhaps you'd like to outline Bush's plan to become the "peace president."
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Old 07-29-2004, 04:39 PM   #92
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Apparently Britain's House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee is being simplistic and naive as well:

Quote:
Iraq at Risk of Becoming 'Failed State' - MPs

By Gavin Cordon and John Deane, Political Staff, PA News

The failure of Britain and the US to impose order in Iraq has turned the country into a “battle ground for al Qaida”, MPs said today.

The Commons Foreign Affairs Committee said there were “insufficient” coalition troops in Iraq to maintain security and warned that the country was in danger of becoming a “failed state” bringing further instability to the region.

At the same time, it warned that Afghanistan could “implode” with “terrible consequences” unless the international force sent to build stability following the overthrow of the Taliban was strengthened.

In its fifth report on the “war against terrorism”, the committee delivered a bleak assessment of the progress that had been made by Britain and the US.

It said that al Qaida continued to pose a “very serious threat” to the UK and its interests around the world.

The committee urged the Government to step up its diplomatic efforts to get more countries – particularly Muslim states – to commit troops to Iraq, both to lend legitimacy to the coalition and to strengthen their beleaguered forces.

“Iraq has become a ‘battle ground’ for al Qaida, with appalling consequences for the Iraqi people. The coalition’s failure to bring law and order to parts of Iraq created a vacuum into which criminal elements and militias have stepped,” it said.


The rest from Scotsman.com
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Old 07-29-2004, 04:42 PM   #93
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I'm non-partisan but I'm voting for Kerry.
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Old 07-29-2004, 04:45 PM   #94
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Sounds like the block button works...lol
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Old 07-29-2004, 04:50 PM   #95
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American- former Bush supporter- former Republican- current Independent- leaning toward a vote for Kerry.
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Old 07-29-2004, 04:50 PM   #96
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ThatGuy, you've been posting rational ideas throughout, so I respect what you are saying. But take a look at the head line of that story you posted:

"Iraq at Risk of Becoming 'Failed State'"

It takes time for these types of things to materialize. Iraq hasn't even been handed over for three months and these writers are saying its possible for Iraq to be a failed state. C'mon now. Please tell me you're not with these guys who are jumping the gun...This is going to take years, not days, or in this case, hours.
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Old 07-29-2004, 04:52 PM   #97
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Yeah, it does take time for those things to materialize. But if I get cancer that puts me "at risk" of dying unless I do something about it, whether it's tomorrow or a year from now.
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Old 07-29-2004, 05:16 PM   #98
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They are now modeling the Iraqi Gov't after America's. They are in the process of implementing this. Now give the process time and let's not give up on it.
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Old 07-29-2004, 05:33 PM   #99
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If they were modelling the Iraqi govenment after America's Iraq would likely have a majority-elected Shiite government. Just like our friend, Iran. Probably not what we want.

But I agree, things in Iraq are going to take lots of time. Neither I nor the Commons Foreign Affairs Committee, nor John Kerry is suggesting that we give up. But it wouldn't hurt to modify our approach.
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Old 07-29-2004, 06:20 PM   #100
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Thats what the Gov't is doing, however - modeling it after America
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Old 07-29-2004, 06:30 PM   #101
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I must have missed the elections.
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Old 07-29-2004, 06:45 PM   #102
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Colin Powell has been speaking about this for the past 6 weeks. America is in the process of setting up the Iraqi Gov't like Americas. Obviosuly, they are putting someone in charge to begin with (I am sure we all know as well that several Iraqi leaders have been taken out) It takes time for things to appear like they are here though. Just give it time and you will see and don't be like those two writers you pointed out.
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Old 07-29-2004, 06:53 PM   #103
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I have serious doubts about whether or not democracy can be imposed upon a people, but that's not really the point here.

The two writers of the article aren't anti-Iraqi democracy. Did you read the article?
Quote:
The committee urged the Government to step up its diplomatic efforts to get more countries – particularly Muslim states – to commit troops to Iraq, both to lend legitimacy to the coalition and to strengthen their beleaguered forces.

“Iraq has become a ‘battle ground’ for al Qaida, with appalling consequences for the Iraqi people. The coalition’s failure to bring law and order to parts of Iraq created a vacuum into which criminal elements and militias have stepped,” it said.

“The insufficient number of troops in Iraq has contributed to the deterioration in security.

“The failure of countries other than the US and the United Kingdom to send significant numbers of troops has had serious and regrettable consequences, not only for the Iraqis but also in terms of the burden placed on UK resources and perceptions of the legitimacy of operations in Iraq.”

The committee’s report coincided with proposals by Saudi Arabia to encourage Muslim states which do not directly border on Iraq to send troops to help build stability.

The Saudi initiative was welcomed by both Iraqi prime minister Iyad Allawi and US Secretary of State Colin Powell.

The committee warned that the failure to deliver security in Iraq could have dire consequences for the entire region.

“The alternative to a positive outcome in Iraq may be a failed state and regional instability,” it said.

“It is therefore of the utmost importance that current problems are resolved in favour of the forces of order and that those who seek to impede Iraq’s transition to a free and democratic state are defeated.”
It's not about democracy, it's about getting in more international support to stabliize the region.
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Old 07-29-2004, 08:42 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThatGuy
I have serious doubts about whether or not democracy can be imposed upon a people, but that's not really the point here.

The two writers of the article aren't anti-Iraqi democracy. Did you read the article?


It's not about democracy, it's about getting in more international support to stabliize the region.
So tell me, who is John Kerry going to get to commit troops to a mission in Iraq that Bush has not? Please name the country and the number of troops! I remind you that 15 countries from NATO are already serving in Iraq.
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Old 07-29-2004, 08:52 PM   #105
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I am not a world leader, STING. However if you think that foreign countries who did not support us before would not change their mind with a new president, then I really think you have blinders on to the sentiments outside of the US.

Now will you explain Bush's "peace president" policy? NBC must still be looking up sources for his rebuttal.
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