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Old 10-16-2005, 08:40 AM   #31
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This looks staged to me.
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Old 10-16-2005, 08:51 AM   #32
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Originally posted by yolland

But perhaps that was not what you meant by "an opposing side that caused us to think" and I misunderstood you???

Honestly, I'm not trying to be combative here...please don't *assume* I got whatever you did out of the original article, because I think maybe I didn't...
Here is my opinion...

The president is in a weakened state popularity wise.

When the press is reporting about something like this I do not believe they are looking at it as news, but as one more thing they could heap on the pile. In my opinion the word "staged" would lead me to believe that the questions were handed to the soldiers, they were not.

They were given general topics, and they practiced with the microphone. No one handed them the questions. Shit, the U2 roadies do the same thing with the band's equiptment. So what? Does that make the concert any more legitimate? Apparently, what the blog reported does not contradict the article according to some in here. I think, it does contradict and present opposing details that shed light into the truth.
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Old 10-16-2005, 11:01 AM   #33
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Funny, every soldier I have spoken with by far has the same feeling about the media's portrayal in Iraq.

I must be talking to the wrong soldiers.......

Must be that they are trying to blindly support the President.

Nice to see you kept the blah blah to the end. I read the whole post.
Funny, every soldier I talk to feels completely the opposite. They feel that the media is being prevented by the government from seeing and reporting the real story in Iraq - that soldiers are constantly being put at risk for what is already a lost cause because the everyday, average citizens of Iraq don't want the US military there and are NEVER going to change their minds no matter how hard the Bushies try to convince the world otherwise.

Of course, I'm just talking to regular boots-on-the-ground soldiers, not back-of-the-line captains who are far more interested in furthering their careers by voicing their support for the lost cause than they are in protecting the soldiers under them.
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Old 10-16-2005, 11:45 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zootomic

Funny, every soldier I talk to feels completely the opposite. They feel that the media is being prevented by the government from seeing and reporting the real story in Iraq - that soldiers are constantly being put at risk for what is already a lost cause because the everyday, average citizens of Iraq don't want the US military there and are NEVER going to change their minds no matter how hard the Bushies try to convince the world otherwise.

Of course, I'm just talking to regular boots-on-the-ground soldiers, not back-of-the-line captains who are far more interested in furthering their careers by voicing their support for the lost cause than they are in protecting the soldiers under them.
FYI I was a SGT in the Army. I have friends still in the service who have done multiple tours in Iraq.

My point, there is a lot of good being done by the servicemen and women. Some of it involves being shot at some of it does not. The efforts to rebuild Iraq, involve much more than just being shot at. The press does not report on these things. And, I am betting your friends would admit to that as well.

And in closing, your attempt to distinguish the difference between the officers in the military verses the enlisted, is pretty crappy. Officers are boots on the ground as are enlisted.
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Old 10-16-2005, 03:55 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
In my opinion the word "staged" would lead me to believe that the questions were handed to the soldiers, they were not.

Apparently, what the blog reported does not contradict the article according to some in here. I think, it does contradict and present opposing details that shed light into the truth.
Fair enough, that makes sense. I did not take "staged" to mean something that literal, personally, but I can certainly see in context why you did.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Generally if I am responding to someone in particular I quote them.

In context it sounded to me like you were suggesting people who oppose the war are to blame for the way soldiers' experiences, both in Iraq and after returning, tend to fall through the cracks. I have never been in the military myself, but my younger brother was in the Air Force and served at Bagram, so I am not naive about the fact that this happens. While I agree with you about the disingenuousness of separating "soldiers'" experiences from "officers,'" I have heard enough from the same "kinds" of soldiers Zootomic has that I feel comfortable including them in the "fell between the cracks" category too. I don't really see soldiers' political views having that much to do with how or why their experiences generally go unreported.

I share your distate for reflexive smear campaigns (which is why I generally avoid the domestic politics threads in here altogether), but you can get pretty caustic sometimes and it is not always apparent to me who or what you mean to direct that at. If someone is denouncing Bush personally every other sentence while commmenting on the war, I at least feel confident what their focus is, though as I said, I generally find it reflexive and distasteful. I don't need "WTF do I know" comments in order to recognize and respect your standpoint as legitimate.

~ Peace
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Old 10-16-2005, 06:59 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
In context it sounded to me like you were suggesting people who oppose the war are to blame for the way soldiers' experiences, both in Iraq and after returning, tend to fall through the cracks.
Nope...I blame the press.....100% for not doing their job.....In my opinion they go with the polls to increase their ratings as opposed to presenting a complete picture.

In no way shape or form am I saying that everyone I chat with or served with believes 100% everytihng is roses. However, they are quick to trun off the news when they return home, saying, that the news is not portraying things accurately as well.

As to my nature on the board....I am who I am....Maybe you are sensing my disappointment at the fact that I feel forced into taking a side I am not always comfortable taking, because there appears to be no right to middle left here. People I used to be able to discuss with have become more polarized, and in turn I feel more polarized.

If I offended you....my apologies.
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Old 10-16-2005, 07:15 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
As to my nature on the board....I am who I am....Maybe you are sensing my disappointment at the fact that I feel forced into taking a side I am not always comfortable taking, because there appears to be no right to middle left here. People I used to be able to discuss with have become more polarized, and in turn I feel more polarized.

The board reflects the outside world, and in the outside world, it was the Republican side that started the polarisation when they permitted the take over of their party by far-right elements.

And to say that there is no middle left on FYM is incorrect. Most left leaning posters on FYM are no more than centrist liberals, certainly not extremists. I think to be honest that with these comments you are seeing things from the prism of US politics, which seem to have shifted dramatically to the right post-Clinton.
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Old 10-16-2005, 07:40 PM   #38
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Originally posted by financeguy



The board reflects the outside world, and in the outside world, it was the Republican side that started the polarisation when they permitted the take over of their party by far-right elements.

Amazingly enough, I feel no polarization outside. I attend a very left of center church, and we are able to talk discuss, and get along fine. I feel it in here.

[Q]And to say that there is no middle left on FYM is incorrect. Most left leaning posters on FYM are no more than centrist liberals, certainly not extremists. I think to be honest that with these comments you are seeing things from the prism of US politics, which seem to have shifted dramatically to the right post-Clinton. [/Q]

Maybe that is the problem, I am seeing it through the US prism. For me, a centrist democrat would have voted for Regan. I find it hard to believe that there are many of those in here.

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Old 10-16-2005, 07:42 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Nope...I blame the press.....100% for not doing their job.....In my opinion they go with the polls to increase their ratings as opposed to presenting a complete picture.
Don't you think though, that even when polls show strong public support for a war (I'm not talking any war in particular now), war news is still reported in such a way as to make it too easy to forget that the subjects are real people risking life and limb in real time--not characters in some highly compressed story? And that, as the link you posted in War demonstrates, they come home changed in ways that are irrevocable, if necessary? This was how I felt about my brother being in Afghanistan. (Of course that was a less opposed war, which I realize makes a difference, but really I was not bothered so much by what opposition existed as by the tendency for everyone to discuss the war as if it were some kind of chess match.)

Quote:
As to my nature on the board....I am who I am....Maybe you are sensing my disappointment at the fact that I feel forced into taking a side I am not always comfortable taking, because there appears to be no right to middle left here. People I used to be able to discuss with have become more polarized, and in turn I feel more polarized.
Thanks for taking the time to explain, Dread. Although I withdraw from those discussions more because of their tenor than the stances, I understand what you are saying and admire you for taking those difficult stands. Something nb said the other day made me wonder how much of that polarization might be avoided--both in people's minds and in what they post--if we all took the time to frame our positions more carefully.
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Old 10-17-2005, 09:57 AM   #40
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i am glad i was offline all weekend, as this conversation has entirely missed the point of the original article.

this is not about the troops on the ground, it is not about media portrayals of what is going on in Iraq, what it is about is a president who is unable to respond to anything other than pre-planned questions. he cannot think on his feet, he cannot find his way from one end of a sentence to the other without a trainwreck of logic and grammar, and he simply cannot defend or explain his administration's own policies without the proper cues from prescreened people.

it's not like this is new. remember on the eve of the Iraq war when they only let certain members of the press ask him questions during a press conference, and that one reporter read off a note card a question about how does your faith guide your decisions, Mr. President?

the press has pussyfooted around the administration, and were deliberately intimidated by the administration especially post 9-11 where any sort of dissent was framed as support for "the evildoers."

this, to me, represents a failure of the democratic process, how someone so ill prepared can assume the office of the presidency. if you aren't absolutely terrified by how the political equivalent of the Exxon Valdez captain came to control the country, then you're not paying attention.
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