Bush takes blame for flaws in Katrina response

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Dreadsox said:
So I will try and rein it in....But I am not going to be silent if I see a post directed at myself or another member... that I think is out of line.

If you see a post you think is in violation of the forum rules or is objectionable for any other reason then you're always welcome to report the post or to send me or any of the other FYM mods a PM or email. Please don't respond in kind though -- two wrongs don't make a right and responding angrily to an inappropriate post won't make the situation any better. I know it can be difficult not to respond when you feel someone has said something unkind or otherwise objectionable to you, but if you just let the mods know about it we'll deal with it as soon as possible.

Thanks,
*Fizz.
 
FizzingWhizzbees said:


lol, well it can get a bit frustrating at times but then again I volunteered for this job and 99% of the time I enjoy it so I've nothing to complain about. :D I just hope you guys think I'm doing an okay job as a mod. :)

yeah fizzy you´re very good at it

big :up:
 
FizzingWhizzbees said:


If you see a post you think is in violation of the forum rules or is objectionable for any other reason then you're always welcome to report the post or to send me or any of the other FYM mods a PM or email. Please don't respond in kind though -- two wrongs don't make a right and responding angrily to an inappropriate post won't make the situation any better. I know it can be difficult not to respond when you feel someone has said something unkind or otherwise objectionable to you, but if you just let the mods know about it we'll deal with it as soon as possible.

Thanks,
*Fizz.

Please feel free to PM me....since this is clearly directed at me it would be appreciated.

However since this is now public....

I find it horribly sad that Jamilla was VICIOUSLY PERSONALLY attacked....and it took the membership of this forum to speak out about it...repeatedly to get it to stop....

and what may be my 2nd post in four years that crosses the line has drawn so much public attention.....
 
Basically, if I were pretty much almost any government official on any level, I'd be tugging at my collar a bit. I do think some people in our federal government did screw up quite a bit with this. But if and when I hear stories of state or local officials botching things up, too, they get my criticism as well. It's amazing how badly this whole thing seemed to have been handled. I mean, I understand that with everything going on, and with as many people as there were in that area to attempt to get out in time and all that sort of thing, yeah, things are going to be rather chaotic and whatnot, and it likely wouldn't go off perfectly, but...I dunno. It's just weird.

As for Bush's apology, I'd just hope he was sincere in giving the apology, and not doing so simply because of pressure from people, be they his friends or his critics.

Also, again, everyone, deep breaths...

And Fizz, I've never had any complaints with you :) :hug:. You're doing a lot better at this job than I would.

Angela
 
Dreadsox said:


Please feel free to PM me....since this is clearly directed at me it would be appreciated.

However since this is now public....

I find it horribly sad that Jamilla was VICIOUSLY PERSONALLY attacked....and it took the membership of this forum to speak out about it...repeatedly to get it to stop....

and what may be my 2nd post in four years that crosses the line has drawn so much public attention.....

Dread,
The only reason I responded to your comments in public was because they were made in public. Had you preferred to PM me I would happily have responded by PM -- my intention was not to draw public attention to you, but simply to respond to a comment you made in public. I appreciate that the vast majority of the time your posts are intelligent, reasonable and don't resort to insults and I'm sorry that you felt that I tried to draw attention to one of the few exceptions. All I can say is that wasn't my intention and I hope you can accept that.

If there's anything else you would like to discuss about the moderation of FYM you're welcome to PM or email me at any time. And with regard to the other issue you raised, all I will say is that there are plenty of ways mods can deal with a problem without everyone necessarily knowing what action was taken -- the person who made personal attacks on Jamila was dealt with appropriately, even though you may not have been aware of it. As I said, if you have any further concerns you're always welcome to contact me or any other mod about them.

Thanks,
*Fizz.
 
Irvine511 said:
one of the worst things about Katrina -- it makes certain members of the Axis of Evil very, very happy. for this, Bush must be faulted:



Iran's Revolutionary Guards have been following closely the way the United States government has been handling Hurricane Katrina, and drawing strategic conclusions from it.

In remarks that appeared on Ansar-e Hezbollah website on Sunday, a top official of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) said the devastating hurricane had exposed America's vulnerabilities.

"The mismanagement and the mishandling of the acute psychological problems brought about by Hurricane Katrina clearly showed that others can, at any given time, create a devastated war-zone in any part of the U.S.", Brigadier General Masoud Jazayeri, the official spokesman of the IRGC, said.

"If the U.S. attacks Iran, each of America’s states will face a crisis the size of Katrina", he said, referring to the massive hurricane which hit the southern coast of the United States. "The smallest mistake by America in this regard will result in every single state in that country turning into a disaster zone".

"How could the White House, which is impotent in the face of a storm and a natural disaster, enter a military conflict with the powerful Islamic Republic of Iran, particularly with the precious experience that we gained in the eight-year war with Iraq?" he said.

Jazayeri said the hurricane havoc showed that "contrary to public perception, the strength of America's leadership is like a balloon, which can easily burst".

The Revolutionary Guards spokesman said the U.S. administration's inability to end the insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan showed the "weakness of America’s defence and state departments, as well as its intelligence and security apparatus".

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3667

Before anyone accepts the comments of a General of Iran's Revolutionary Guards as being accurate and intelligent, you might want to inquire what happened in Iran's last war and who they were defeated by. In response to natural disasters, ask them how many Iranian citizens were killed the last time they had major earthquakes. Some of the General's comments are borderline Baghdad Bob material.
 
Irvine511 said:




mostly fair enough, but Melon's post makes sense as well -- why save the wetlands when people making low 6 figure incomes want a tax break so they can buy another SUV?

but i don't understand: i've been saying that of course there were failures at the local level, but the human catastrophe post-hurricane falls on the shoulders of the federal government. what i'm seeing from "said FYMers" is a near-pathological rush to the defense of Bush in particular when he himself has said that he essentially failed to perform the most basic function of government: protect the citizens.

I can agree that melon's post makes sense; that doesn't mean I agree with everything he said 100%, but he does point to the view that "there are multiple levels at fault in this disaster." And I will add that in the bureaucracy cutting the funding, someone had also revealed in a thread awhile back that the Clinton administration had also cut funding for the NOLA Army COE levee project.

I think there is room for reasonable dissent in the blame for some of the post-hurricane because of what we've seen about the Red Cross being blocked from getting food and supplies to the evacuees, but I don't see any "near-pathological rush" to defend Bush in regards tot he overall Federal response.

~U2Alabama
 
Irvine511 said:




when people making low 6 figure incomes want a tax break so they can buy another SUV?


Oh, and I didn't miss this...you never skip an opportunity to bring my SUV into the picture; but I don't qualify for the tax breaks. Maybe some day.

But you'll get a kick out of this misfortune that happened to me today. The authorities pulled me over as I pulled into my church parking lot for Wendesday evening activities. It was because the left tail light on my SUV was dim. Then he thought he was going to bust me for not having proof of insurance (a big fine/city revenue cash flow), but I found it. He never gave me the 72-hour equipment violation ticket, just told me to get it fixed. He was driving a police SUV. I thought it was tacky for him to pull me over on holy ground in front of my fellow worshippers, but I figure you may get a chuckle out of a conservative Alabaman getting pulled over in his SUV in his church parking lot.

~U2Alabama
 
U2Bama said:


Oh, and I didn't miss this...you never skip an opportunity to bring my SUV into the picture; but I don't qualify for the tax breaks. Maybe some day.

But you'll get a kick out of this misfortune that happened to me today. The authorities pulled me over as I pulled into my church parking lot for Wendesday evening activities. It was because the left tail light on my SUV was dim. Then he thought he was going to bust me for not having proof of insurance (a big fine/city revenue cash flow), but I found it. He never gave me the 72-hour equipment violation ticket, just told me to get it fixed. He was driving a police SUV. I thought it was tacky for him to pull me over on holy ground in front of my fellow worshippers, but I figure you may get a chuckle out of a conservative Alabaman getting pulled over in his SUV in his church parking lot.


that is a cute story, but i wasn't thinking about your SUV. honest!

i suppose my problem is that, to me, SUVs are emblematic of where i see this country going wrong. forgive me, i was an English Major, so i see symbolism everywhere.

though i will say that you are more thoughtful and articulate that the stereotype i have in my head of an SUV-driving conservative Alabaman.

;)
 
he's making a speech tonight, I wonder what he'll have to say

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/15/D8CKS5504.html

Rather than speak before a live audience, Bush planned to stand alone and broadcast his message directly into the camera from the evacuated city's historic Jackson Square, according to a White House official speaking on condition of anonymity since the site had not been announced.
 
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deep said:
It was a very good speech


perhaps, the best one I have ever heard him give



http://www.historyplace.com/specials/portraits/presidents/g-w-bush.jpg[/IMG]
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sue4u2 said:



I agree. Excellent speech! I'll vote for his writers.
I have no doubt however, he meant it, at least some of it.
The results remain to be seen..
Sorry I'm not converting yet.

one speech

does not get my vote

or change my opinion that

he is the worst president I can recall

but, to be fair

I call them as I see them

and the speech was damn good

the first 2/3s sounded like something Clinton might have said

when he started saying congress(gop) would investigate, well

I am sure glad they dropped the spin “we will investigate what went right, and what went wrong"
that was so Rovian pathetic.
 
Good speech, what I heard of it. And I appreciate that he gave it in Jackson Square.

Jackson Square is probably my favorite place to spend an afternoon in NOLA. On one end, you have Jackson Brewery and The Mississippi Riverwalk park, and St. Louis Cathedral is on the other end. Along each side, you have some great restaurants and art galleries. On the sidewalk around the square, you can find street artists occasionally painting but always selling their original works. There's a great restaurant on the corner just across from St. Louis Cathedral; they have excellent gumbo, red beans & rice, and shrimp jambalaya, (all of which you can get together as a "sampler"), and, to wash it all down, cold Dixie Beer. When the city opens back up to tourism, please visit; those places and the people that work there will appreciate it. Buy a Lucky Dog from the cart and walk around the Square and check out the artists' work. You'll probably bring some home.

~U2Alabama
 
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Irvine511 said:



though i will say that you are more thoughtful and articulate that the stereotype i have in my head of an SUV-driving conservative Alabaman.

Thanks; I'm glad I could break the stereotype.

~U2Alabama
 
U2Bama said:
Good speech, what I heard of it. And I appreciate that he gave it in Jackson Square.

Jackson Square is probably my favorite place to spend an afternoon in NOLA. On one end, you have Jackson Brewery and The Mississippi Riverwalk park, and St. Louis Cathedral is on the other end. Along each side, you have some great restaurants and art galleries. On the sidewalk around the square, you can find street artists occasionally painting but always selling their original works. There's a great restaurant on the corner just across from St. Louis Cathedral; they have excellent gumbo, red beans & rice, and shrimp jambalaya, (all of which you can get together as a "sampler"), and, to wash it all down, cold Dixie Beer. When the city opens back up to tourism, please visit; those places and the people that work there will appreciate it. Buy a Lucky Dog from the cart and walk around the Square and check out the artists' work. You'll probably bring some home.

~U2Alabama


Wow, the memories. I've not been to Jackson Square in years but I have pic's. I hope all is not lost.
and I will go there again. :yes:
 
Sorry. He should have given this speech two Fridays ago. It's not the speech of a man who has repented for his mistakes (yes, there were local mistakes, but they're not the only ones) but the desperation of a politican whose poll numbers have sunk below 40 and is growing increasingly desperate that he can't weasel his way out of this one, and is thinking about next year's Congressional elections. When I think of the emotion in the speech, all I can think of was the hearing aid he had in the first debate last year where Karl Rove was hissing instructions into his ear. "You look good there, Sir. Just tilt your head to the right a little. Now, put some EMOTION into it." He showed his TRUE colors on that infamous Friday, for all time. That was him. It's THOSE moments when we nend aleader, even if he had to fake it. When the emergency is hot. Instead, it was, "Brownie, you;re doing a heck of a job." "And Trent Lott's house.

When we are unguarded, and the words are unscripted...THAT is who we are.

How many times did he have to rehearse that Reganesque catch in his voice? He might only NOW be feeling SOME empathy, but it is just 2 weeks too F*$(% g late.

Sorry, this time this is not the speech of a non-Bush fan. If this had happened 10 yrs ago, and Clinton had been in power and had bungled the response, I might very well have decided never to vote in a Presidential election again.

I am sorry, but all the damage control and the desire to "make things right" won't ever wipe those pictures out of my head, or bring back the dead, or restore my belief that there isn't real mind-bending HATE for the poor and oppressed in this country. We don't even know what it is we've lost, in all the sugar-coated hype about what we have supposedly gained. Any desire for "repentance" or to "make things right" from now on, just smacks of politcs. "They're not saying any good things here, let's leave." That, accoridng to the conservative Washington Post, was what Bush said that Friday, even as people died yards away. That, for me, will be what it is all about.

For me, it's not even about politics anymore. There is a core of bitterness that won't go away, and it's deeper than any kind of intellectual hate. True, the bitterness is spread out for me--it;s not just the Federal crowd who is guilty. But those are not excuses to make in a time of NATIONAL crisis. So for me, whoever sits in the White House, regardless of party, in times like these should be held most to scrutiny, and should LEAD--if only be speaking at the right time. Now, it's all politcs.

PS Sorry if I repeated myself. But I'm just so damned bitter. The sugar-coated happy stories of heroism (Like the one I;m aobut to post) don't cut it anymore....
 
Well, here's the story....

Get out a hankie, and like the writer says, call Oprah.

Wonderful story, and I've sent it loads of people. I just hope that when Hollywood comes calling, they also won't forget the "teenage girls delivering fetuses on buses" and old handicapped women dying in piles of their own shit.

The Story Of Steve

http://comebackalive.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12776
 
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If you want to know the reason behind the speech

here's a big clue...

He's put Karl Rove in charge of the reconstruction.

Now, Rove is a political agent, his sole purpose is to make Bush and the GOP look good, he's done this throughout the years through a system of patronage, media manipulation and lies. His purpose during the reconstruction will be to get the GOP as many votes as possible in the 2006 election.

What exactly qualifies Karl Rove to be in charge of the reconstruction effort???
 
U2Bama said:


Thanks; I'm glad I could break the stereotype.

~U2Alabama



well, i put no stock in any sort of stereotypes, mine or others, so i know they're like world records in track or swimming -- made to be broken.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/16/bush.americareacts.ap/index.html

Two refugees had nothing but profanities to utter after President Bush's speech from New Orleans. A casino dealer said Congress was to blame for the slow response to the hurricane, not the president.

Americans watched Bush's speech Thursday with mixed expectations. Some were glad the president acknowledged again the government's failure in its initial response to Hurricane Katrina; others were angry, saying the speech was too little, too late.
 
joyfulgirl said:


Kinda how I feel. I mean, he's saying all the right things but it's just politics. He's one of the most insincere people I've ever seen. He'll just say whatever he has to say. He has zero credibility with me and his words are empty.

4 some people, no matter WHAT or WHEN he did something, it wouldn't b enough, because they don't like him. And I have 2 disagree here, he may not b the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I think his sincerity , which is one of the things that gets him in so much hot water, is genuine.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050916...eGAZrAGw_IE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

President Bush said Friday that the Gulf Coast must be rebuilt with an eye toward wiping out the persistent poverty and racial injustice plain to all in the suffering of the black and the poor in Hurricane Katrina's wake.

"As we clear away the debris of a hurricane, let us also clear away the legacy of inequality," Bush said during a national prayer service with other political leaders and religious figures from the affected region at the National Cathedral."..................

Before Bush's remarks, Bishop T.D. Jakes, head of 30,000-member Potter's House church in Dallas, delivered a powerful sermon in which he called upon Americans to "dare to discuss the unmentionable issues that confront us" and to not rest until the poor are raised to an acceptable living standard.

"Katrina, perhaps, she has done something to this nation that needed to be done," Jakes said. "We can no longer be a nation that overlooks the poor and the suffering, that continues past the ghetto on our way to the Mardi Gras."
 
popshopper said:
If you want to know the reason behind the speech

here's a big clue...

He's put Karl Rove in charge of the reconstruction.

Now, Rove is a political agent, his sole purpose is to make Bush and the GOP look good, he's done this throughout the years through a system of patronage, media manipulation and lies. His purpose during the reconstruction will be to get the GOP as many votes as possible in the 2006 election.

What exactly qualifies Karl Rove to be in charge of the reconstruction effort???


i thought you were making this up

or just joking


then, I find this:huh:


Republicans said Karl Rove, the White House deputy chief of staff and Mr. Bush's chief political adviser, was in charge of the reconstruction effort, which reaches across many agencies of government and includes the direct involvement of Alphonso R. Jackson, secretary of housing and urban development.


As good as I believe the speech was

and as much as I wanted to be impressed with a new insightfulness and direction


choosing Rove makes him not only the worst president, but the stupidest
and I have tried to stay away from that judgement
 
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