Bush Starts "Second Surge" to Double Number of Troops in Iraq

[redhotswami]

Is that so?

Well then, would you like to condemn the statements of John Kerry and Ted Kennedy and the others who voted for this war and who believed Saddam was a threat? Would you like to condemn Hillary for voting for this war and then bragging when we caught Saddam?

I guess when President Bush says something, its a lie, but when Dems say the exact same thing, it's something else.

Absolutely! I think you've just assumed that we're all democrats. For the record, I want to point out that being liberal does not necessarily mean that one is a democrat. And we're not all sheep either. I'm certainly not following a party just to be following a party. Both parties don't even come close to my ideals.

You did this to me earlier in the thread. You A) assumed I was a democrat and B) assumed I supported Rangel. We are a diverse community. Just because some politician claims to be a democrat, does not mean that all those who are liberal minded are going to support her/him.

 

[BVS]

Did they lie to America? Either everyone lied, or no one lied.

You really don't get it do you? They were fed faulty "intelligence". Some have admitted their fault in not questioning the intelligence and others haven't.

It's like you, you still think we have satellite images, so technically you aren't lying. But if you ever caught up with the rest of us and realized these images never existed, you would be lying if you still claimed this.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Well, you can be against a war, but seeing that you can't prevent it from happening at least demanding it to be carried out in a way that has a chance to become a success, and if mistakes were done blame them for that.

One couldn't prevent the war from happening although being against it, so it's no hypocrisy to be upset that in the beginning the troops deploeyed to Iraq weren't sufficient.

You can support the fight against poverty in Africa in many ways without having to go there or giving away your last cent. That's plain crap.

You can't demand a troop increase when the military is finding it difficult to find people joining the armed forces and when it comes to yourself say: "No, sorry, I support an increase in troop, but this shouldn't apply to myself."

To say it's the soldier's fault to be in this situation ignores one very important fact: Many of these soldiers come from very poor neighbourhoods with low education and no real future prospects. They see their chances in joining the army, or get told so by Army recruiters going into such neigbourhoods telling them how great it is to fight for the own country and what how a career in the Army will boost their future expectations.

And please, when do you start to get over this "Every liberal/anti-war protester is an Anti-American"? You are 19 for God's sake.

 

[martha]

You are 19 for God's sake.

Oh that just takes the cake. He's the same age as those poor kids getting blown to bits, and he blathers on and on about how great the war is, and he refuses to put up or shut up?

 

[2861U2]

And please, when do you start to get over this "Every liberal/anti-war protester is an Anti-American"? You are 19 for God's sake.

Sir, please tell me when I said that. I never implied that, nor do I believe that. You need to wise-up.

And martha, how am I "refusing to put up or shut up?"

Also, my age should have nothing to do with this conversation. I wish more college kids thought like me, instead of being fed all this anti-Bush, anti-government garbage that comes with attending a college. I'm not a premium member so I cant tell anyone's age here, but it wouldnt surprise me if some where just middle-aged hippies trying to re-live the war protests from the 60s and 70s.

 

[BVS]

anti-government garbage that comes with attending a college.

Where do you come up with this shit?

Nevermind, I know you won't answer. You haven't answered one question or post aimed to you. You've avoided any real evidence or facts. You're wasting everyone's time.

 

[2861U2]

Where do you come up with this shit?

Nevermind, I know you won't answer. You haven't answered one question or post aimed to you. You've avoided any real evidence or facts. You're wasting everyone's time.

Actually, I will answer, and actually, I have addressed many of the depressing comments that you all have made- at least as many as I can bear to stand.

I "come up with that shit" because I am currently attending a university, and see this stuff on a daily basis. I dont know or care to know if you ever went to college, but maybe you became immune to this stuff. I've personally had professors who trash Bush and all government. I've never known someone to seem to hate authority as much as Dr. Sullivan did. The classrooms, hallways and teachers at college are largely one-sided, and if you cant comprehend that, come spend a day at Illinois State with me.

And if I am wasting everyone's time, feel free to not contribute to this discussion anymore. You wont change my views, and I dont plan on changing yours.

 

[Diemen]

I'm not a premium member so I cant tell anyone's age here, but it wouldnt surprise me if some where just middle-aged hippies trying to re-live the war protests from the 60s and 70s.

So do you think there was nothing about the Vietnam War worth protesting?

 

[BVS]

Actually, I will answer, and actually, I have addressed many of the depressing comments that you all have made- at least as many as I can bear to stand.

I "come up with that shit" because I am currently attending a university, and see this stuff on a daily basis. I dont know or care to know if you ever went to college, but maybe you became immune to this stuff. I've personally had professors who trash Bush and all government. I've never known someone to seem to hate authority as much as Dr. Sullivan did. The classrooms, hallways and teachers at college are largely one-sided, and if you cant comprehend that, come spend a day at Illinois State with me.

And if I am wasting everyone's time, feel free to not contribute to this discussion anymore. You wont change my views, and I dont plan on changing yours.

So a couple of your proffesors allows you to make such generalizations? Your views on education are very enlightening.

You didn't address satellite images.

You didn't address how many known terrorists were in Iraq prior to 9/11, as opposed to others.

You didn't address why it's OK for you to support your fellow 19 years old to go to a dead end war but not you.

You didn't address the difference between those who were fed faulty evidence and admitted it and those who didn't.

All subjects you initially brought up and couldn't back up.

Your views are extremely depressing and make me fearful of this country's future.

 

[redhotswami]

you can always transfer to Liberty!

 

[Diemen]

And if I am wasting everyone's time, feel free to not contribute to this discussion anymore. You wont change my views, and I dont plan on changing yours.

That's odd, I wasn't aware this was your discussion.

That said, I think you might come across better if you didn't make such sweeping and inaccurate generalizations about those you're responding to.

 

[martha]

And martha, how am I "refusing to put up or shut up?"

If you're so hot to fight a war, go fight the damn thing.

but it wouldnt surprise me if some where just middle-aged hippies trying to re-live the war protests from the 60s and 70s.

Another stunning assumption. You should be pissed about the education you've received if all you've learned is how to assume and then go from there.

 

[phanan]

I did have something eloquent and meaningful to say, but I don't think it's worth it.

 

[martha]

I "come up with that shit" because I am currently attending a university, and see this stuff on a daily basis. I dont know or care to know if you ever went to college, but maybe you became immune to this stuff. I've personally had professors who trash Bush and all government. .... The classrooms, hallways and teachers at college are largely one-sided, and if you cant comprehend that, come spend a day at Illinois State with me.

This kind of attitude always amuses the shit out of me. Conservatives always hate academics because they're "librul." I prefer to think of them as "educated."

It's funny that Conservatives and educated people tend to think differently. Why is that?

 

[2861U2]

Conservatives always hate academics because they're "librul."

Hmm, thats quite a generalization.

It's funny that Conservatives and educated people tend to think differently.

Excuse me? You think these people are educated? Far from it, from what I've seen. The profs I've had seem like the most misguided, bitter, wishful-thinking group of adults I've ever seen.

I would question your definition of "educated."

 

[yolland]

I don't think a digression into the political attitudes of academics is going to help the thread much, guys.

 

[trevster2k]

2861, did you ever attend Jesus Camp?

 

[2861U2]

2861, did you ever attend Jesus Camp?

I'm not sure what you're referring to. Please explain.

 

[yolland]

What does that have to do with anything, trev?

It's a documentary, 2861. We had a thread about it awhile back in here.

 

[trevster2k]

Well, incredible loyal devotion to Bush and disdain for the liberal arts isn't something one gets at a young age unless there is some doctrination from somewhere.

Just curious, if a Jesus camp was involved.

I'm outta here.

 

[deep]

Team working up new strategy for Iraq war



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. military is joining forces with the State Department to prepare a new Iraq strategy that includes negotiating cease-fire and power-sharing agreements with some enemy combatants, U.S. officials said Wednesday.

A "joint campaign plan redesign team" is preparing the diplomatic and military strategy for Iraq, which is expected to be approved by the end of the month.

The team laying out the new course for how to proceed in the four-year-old war is led by Gen. David Petraeus and U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker, the officials told CNN.

One element of the plan is to try to identify groups of people -- possibly including Sunni extremists and militia groups -- with whom U.S. officials feel they can do business, such as negotiating power-sharing and cease-fire agreements and granting economic aid, the sources said. (

But those with whom officials feel they cannot do business -- such as determined suicide bombers -- will remain targets of military forces, the sources said.

The officials cited an inability to maintain current troop levels into the summer as a reason for the changed course.

"We have been focused too long on defeating the enemy," one official said. "We need to bring them to the negotiating table."

Little else is known about the new plan and it has drawn little reaction.

But the announcement apparently is an acknowledgment that the traditional war-fighting stance of trying to capture or kill all insurgents is failing, that the country may have devolved into a civil war, and that the only way to proceed is to use military force sparingly and attempt to bring many insurgents into the fold.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Sir, please tell me when I said that. I never implied that, nor do I believe that. You need to wise-up.

And martha, how am I "refusing to put up or shut up?"

Also, my age should have nothing to do with this conversation. I wish more college kids thought like me, instead of being fed all this anti-Bush, anti-government garbage that comes with attending a college. I'm not a premium member so I cant tell anyone's age here, but it wouldnt surprise me if some where just middle-aged hippies trying to re-live the war protests from the 60s and 70s.

OK, my bad. Was Snowlock with the anti-American comment.

You are such a friendly guy, really.


Btw., I'm 21 and far from being hippy.

 

[redhotswami]

2861U2, I know disagreements with people who are on the opposite side of your beliefs are frustrating. I get frustrated myself, as you've seen here. However, I can't help notice that you are very quick to generalize. And, as a college administrator, I just want to advise you that that can be very dangerous. College is a great opportunity to meet people from all sorts of backgrounds and idealologies that you've never met before. Jumping to conclusions about people in the way you do can be dangerous outside of the message board.

Even if you feel like you don't fit in, you should still embrace the college environment. It is an opportunity that not everyone gets the chance to experience. You said you wish college kids thought more like you, but I'm sure there is already a student group that may share your beleifs, or close to it. Why not join that community?

And, I'd also recommend getting to know people on the other side too. I think if you had befriended some individuals who were different than you are, you may not be so quick to generalize. I'm not saying change your beliefs. Nobody is going to make you do that. I'm just saying it might be good to meet some other "liberals" and engage in conversation with them. You might be surprised by what you find.

Just a thought.

 

[martha]

Let's keep the thread on topic, and wait patiently for the proof and the hot hot pix of the WMDs.


Conservative porn.

 

[joyfulgirl]

I did have something eloquent and meaningful to say, but I don't think it's worth it.

 

[Smallville]

I wish more college kids thought like me, instead of being fed all this anti-Bush, anti-government garbage that comes with attending a college. I'm not a premium member so I cant tell anyone's age here, but it wouldnt surprise me if some where just middle-aged hippies trying to re-live the war protests from the 60s and 70s.

I know it's hard to hold the minority opinion in here but really man, you may want to calm down a bit, you're giving the few conservatives in here a bad name. That statement is just crazy.

 

[redhotswami]

bow chika bow wow!

Let's keep the thread on topic, and wait patiently for the proof and the hot hot pix of the WMDs.


Conservative porn.

I found the WMDs!

 

[martha]

They're not as sexy as advertised.

 

[DrTeeth]

oops

 

[DrTeeth]

One element of the plan is to try to identify groups of people -- possibly including Sunni extremists and militia groups -- with whom U.S. officials feel they can do business, such as negotiating power-sharing and cease-fire agreements and granting economic aid, the sources said.

I can remember a time not too long ago when people, who opted for negotiations with even the moderates, were labelled appeasers and un-American. I guess some people just have to learn these things the hard way.