Bush Starts "Second Surge" to Double Number of Troops in Iraq - Page 10 - U2 Feedback

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Old 06-01-2007, 10:51 PM   #136
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I get the Kucinich argument "Get the fuck out of Dodge!" , fair enough.

What is baffling is this stance that was so steadfastly against the surge and now would conveniently like to wait it out.

In other words, these people are political whores.
Democrats aren't the good guys, never were.

The good guys are anyone willing to stand up and do what's right with absoloutely no adherance to any idealogy or concern for re-elections.

Few and far fucking between.

I understand that it's a simplification to pit good vs bad, basically if you 'believe' in any sense in the partisan two party charade, I personally think you've been duped beyond common sense.
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Old 06-04-2007, 12:44 PM   #137
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[q]Commanders Say Push in Baghdad Is Short of Goal

By DAVID S. CLOUD and DAMIEN CAVE
BAGHDAD, June 3 — Three months after the start of the Baghdad security plan that has added thousands of American and Iraqi troops to the capital, they control fewer than one-third of the city’s neighborhoods, far short of the initial goal for the operation, according to some commanders and an internal military assessment.

The American assessment, completed in late May, found that American and Iraqi forces were able to “protect the population” and “maintain physical influence over” only 146 of the 457 Baghdad neighborhoods.

In the remaining 311 neighborhoods, troops have either not begun operations aimed at rooting out insurgents or still face “resistance,” according to the one-page assessment, which was provided to The New York Times and summarized reports from brigade and battalion commanders in Baghdad.

The assessment offers the first comprehensive look at the progress of the effort to stabilize Baghdad with the heavy influx of additional troops. The last remaining American units in the troop increase are just now arriving.

Violence has diminished in many areas, but it is especially chronic in mixed Shiite-Sunni neighborhoods in western Baghdad, several senior officers said. Over all, improvements have not yet been as widespread or lasting across Baghdad, they acknowledged.

The operation “is at a difficult point right now, to be sure,” said Brig. Gen. Vincent K. Brooks, the deputy commander of the First Cavalry Division, which has responsibility for Baghdad.

In an interview, he said that while military planners had expected to make greater gains by now, that has not been possible in large part because Iraqi police and army units, which were expected to handle basic security tasks, like manning checkpoints and conducting patrols, have not provided all the forces promised, and in some cases have performed poorly.

That is forcing American commanders to conduct operations to remove insurgents from some areas multiple times. The heavily Shiite security forces have also repeatedly failed to intervene in some areas when fighters, who fled or laid low when the American troops arrived, resumed sectarian killings.

“Until you have the ability to have a presence on the street by people who are seen as honest and who are not letting things come back in,” said General Brooks, referring to the Iraqi police units, “you can’t shift into another area and expect that place to stay the way it was.”

When planners devised the Baghdad security plan late last year, they had assumed most Baghdad neighborhoods would be under control around July, according to a senior American military officer, so the emphasis could shift into restoring services and rebuilding the neighborhoods as the summer progressed.

“We were way too optimistic,” said the officer, adding that September is now the goal for establishing basic security in most neighborhoods, the same month that Bush administration officials have said they plan to review the progress of the plan.

Lt. Gen. Raymond T. Odierno, the senior American ground commander in Iraq, said in a brief interview that he never believed that a midsummer timetable for establishing security in Baghdad was realistic. “This was always going to be conditions-driven,” he said, noting that he always had expected it would take until fall to establish security across much of the city.

But in order to meet that timetable, he added, the Iraqi Security Forces would have to make strides in coming months at maintaining security. “Ultimately the I.S.F., and specifically the police, are the key to holding an area,” he said. “We have to within the next four months move them more toward holding the areas we have cleared.”

The last of the five combat brigades ordered to Iraq as reinforcements as part of the security plan will increase the number of American troops in the city to around 30,000, up from 21,000 before the operation, an American officer said.

In addition, around 30,000 Iraqi Army and national police forces and another 21,000 policemen have been deployed in Baghdad. Many of the Iraqi units have turned up at less than full strength and other units have been redeployed from the capital, General Brooks said, leaving fewer than expected.[/q]
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Old 06-04-2007, 07:11 PM   #138
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You're not giving the plan a chance to succeed.
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:29 PM   #139
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Originally posted by Diemen
You're not giving the plan a chance to succeed.


you're right.

we can't possibly make a remotely accurate assessment of The Surge -- kinda sexy sounding, no? -- until 2027.
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Old 06-05-2007, 02:40 AM   #140
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I'm referring to the footage Powell showed the UN. I'm not sure if the stuff can even be found on the internet, and I dont want to look for it. Unlike surely every single person here, I proudly listen to Rush Limbaugh and trust what he says, and he has reported such footage existing.
Quote:
It hasnt happened since 9/11. Our troops being over there puts pressure on the enemy. I heard someone say that because we are over there Al-Qaeda is constantly moving around and on the defense, making it hard for them to plot attacks. Does nobody else see that leaving Iraq would create a space that will absolutely be filled by Iran or Al-Qaeda? Pulling out certainly would not decrease the chance of us being hit again. Al-Qaeda will know that have chosen to lose and that we are weak.
Unless you think for yourself and draw your own conclusions, your complete lack of curiosity makes you the same drone as the neo-hippy liberal anti-Bush college hordes you say you detest. Even your political heroes can be wrong every once in a while.
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Old 06-05-2007, 09:38 AM   #141
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Originally posted by mobvok




Unless you think for yourself and draw your own conclusions, your complete lack of curiosity makes you the same drone as the neo-hippy liberal anti-Bush college hordes you say you detest. Even your political heroes can be wrong every once in a while.
I do think for myself. It sounds like you're saying that I can't listen to talk radio without being a pawn who doesnt think for myself. If that is true, then are you not allowed to watch the news or read the paper or listen to radio without being a drone? I'm pretty sure Rush knows more about what is going on than I, and I was simply relaying what I heard.

And yes, my political "heroes" as you call them can be and are wrong sometimes. Take President Bush- I havent agreed with some of the things he has done as of late.
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Old 06-05-2007, 09:47 AM   #142
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I do think for myself. It sounds like you're saying that I can't listen to talk radio without being a pawn who doesnt think for myself.
That's not what anyone is saying. It's just you have a hard time backing yourself up with any real evidence, articles, logic, etc. You've been asked several times by several posters to back yourself up and you've ignored them all. All we've got was, "Rush told me so". That really doesn't fly in the real world, if Rush told you, then find out where Rush got his sources from that would be a good start.

I noticed you are fairly young and in college, I have no clue what your major is, but if you ever take any kind of English class where you have to do persuasive writing, any kind of debate class, science class you'll learn the importance of being able to back up your statement. Good luck!
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Old 06-05-2007, 10:14 AM   #143
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Originally posted by 2861U2
I'm pretty sure Rush knows more about what is going on than I,
Don't sell yourself that short.
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Old 06-05-2007, 03:18 PM   #144
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Originally posted by martha


Don't sell yourself that short.
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Old 06-05-2007, 07:40 PM   #145
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I do think for myself. It sounds like you're saying that I can't listen to talk radio without being a pawn who doesnt think for myself. If that is true, then are you not allowed to watch the news or read the paper or listen to radio without being a drone? I'm pretty sure Rush knows more about what is going on than I, and I was simply relaying what I heard.
Of course you can listen to talk radio, but there's a key difference between Rush and your average Iraq correspondent- Rush has an explicit stated interest in getting Republicans elected to Congress. In other words, he has an interest in relaying stories that would help support Republicans, even if they're sketchy or just rumors. Taking anything said by partisan sources at face value means you won't be told facts that disagree.

But what's worse with citing Rush is that you can't point to a transcript where others can read what Rush said and the sources he used, instead, you want us to take (your interpretation of) Rush's word on faith. If I said "I read in the Washington Post that Bush will be indicted for lying!", would you blindly accept that? I doubt you would- you'd want to know more. Maybe the reports are from a Congressman, or maybe they're from a far-left operative trying to undermine the Bush Administration. One is obviously more reliable then the other.

In short, until you seriously back up your claims, no one will believe you.....BonoVox said this a lot more concisely then I did.
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Old 06-14-2007, 05:39 PM   #146
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http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/14/snow-bush-war/

Snow: President Bush Is ‘On The Frontlines’ Of The Iraq War ‘Every Day’

In today’s White House press briefing, reporter Helen Thomas asked Tony Snow if there are “any members of the Bush family or this administration in this war.” Stunningly, Snow claimed that President Bush is actually on the “frontlines” of the war in Iraq:

Q: Are there any members of the Bush family or this administration in this war?

SNOW: Yeah, the President. The President is in the war every day.

Q: Come on, that isn’t my question –

SNOW: Well, no, if you ask any president who is a commander in chief –

Q: On the frontlines, wherever…

SNOW: The President.
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:12 PM   #147
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Helen Thomas is a sad old lady.
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:13 PM   #148
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Somehow Helen Thomas played no role in my response to that exchange

Shoot the messenger I guess
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:15 PM   #149
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Originally posted by 2861U2
Helen Thomas is a sad old lady.
Yeah, Snow should have asked her if any reporters were on the front lines?

If any reporters have died?

He would have got her good then.
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:18 PM   #150
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Originally posted by deep


Yeah, Snow should have asked her if any reporters were on the front lines?

If any reporters have died?

He would have got her good then.


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