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Old 09-21-2004, 11:44 PM   #1
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Bush Speech

I really liked this one when I saw the webcast, transcript is here, a true peace founded on freedom, it certainly lines up with my views.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0040921-3.html

It was met with little applause, It is very important for all of you to realize: this is a signal from other countries that you should all vote for John Kerry. Please do not disappoint your friends at the United Nations--including, for example, France, Russia, Egypt, and Syria--who are simply waiting for more constructive leadership in Washington. Working together, you must get rid of George Bush, and then, and only then, can the US work together with such nations as a global community.
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Old 09-22-2004, 01:35 AM   #2
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GEE COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE ON THAT!
BUSH SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! SO DOES AUSTRALIAN P.M. JOHNNY HOWARD OR AS WE CALL HIM LYING RODENT!!
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Old 09-22-2004, 01:41 AM   #3
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Israel should impose a settlement freeze, dismantle unauthorized outposts, end the daily humiliation of the Palestinian people, and avoid any actions that prejudice final negotiations.
Yeah, nice words but he's allready negotiating with Israel about softening that freeze and he supports the wall which is a prejudice final negotiations.

I'm not sure why he tells one thing to the public and negotiates about the oposite. Well - maybee it's because of the election time - he tells every single person what he wants to hear
This would also explain why he wastes the time to "sell" his old decisions instead of working on an international coalition against terror at the UN
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Old 09-22-2004, 01:42 AM   #4
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My fine sarcasm is obviously lost on some who genuinely believe that a country like Syria is interested in liberty. Down with Marksism and up with the Liberal parties common sense agenda.

Also I think that Bush has the most solid support for Israel than any president ever. He is a man who understands that terrorism against Israelis is still terrorism. Introducing a freedom fund will no doubt show the world the UN terror enablers for who they really are and finally force a settlement (once Arafat is rotting underground).
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Old 09-22-2004, 01:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
My fine sarcasm is obviously lost on some who genuinely believe that a country like Syria is interested in liberty. Down with Marksism and up with the Liberal parties common sense agenda.

Also I think that Bush has the most solid support for Israel than any president ever. He is a man who understands that terrorism against Israelis is still terrorism. Introducing a freedom fund will no doubt show the world the UN terror enablers for who they really are and finally force a settlement (once Arafat is rotting underground).
Bush won't accomplish anything except to make a bigger mess and make US citizens and westerners alike even more hated worldwide. Like him if you wish, but the man is worse than worthless.
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Old 09-22-2004, 02:01 AM   #6
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I respectfully disagree, as I have made abundantly clear in my other posts I disagree with his social agenda but he hits the nail on the head when he states that liberty ensures peace. Fighting to spread and preserve freedom must be the driving force behind the US foreign policy, failure to ensure its success guarantees annihilation. Lets see some liberals who stand for liberty!
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Old 09-22-2004, 02:10 AM   #7
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"Fighting to spread and preserve freedom" sends one bad message to many regimes of the world
"Let's develop nuclear weapons before Mr. Bush want's to "liberate" our land"
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Old 09-22-2004, 02:13 AM   #8
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As opposed to their peaceful nuclear aspirations rogue states had under Clinton?

The world is fucked, I do not think that cutting deals with Mullahs and Autocrats will fix it. The IAEA is dropping the ball on Iran, nobody respects the UN at all, this is because it is a weak organization that is more interested in preserving the status quo than changing the world.
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Old 09-22-2004, 02:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer removing
I respectfully disagree, as I have made abundantly clear in my other posts I disagree with his social agenda but he hits the nail on the head when he states that liberty ensures peace. Fighting to spread and preserve freedom must be the driving force behind the US foreign policy, failure to ensure its success guarantees annihilation. Lets see some liberals who stand for liberty!
Of course, you don't live here, so you don't have to deal with his domestic policies.

And I do stand for liberty, but I don't see Dubya or his half-baked policies gaining liberty or peace for anyone. And he is removing or preventing it for many. He's just playing cowboy.
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Old 09-22-2004, 02:17 AM   #10
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I don't think that "Rambo-like" politics is helpful either, i agree to Sir Ivor here:
"Bush is al-Qaeda's best recruiting sergeant."
The current administration is messing up the mid east and they hope that everything will work out fine in the future. If it won't fix itself there is no plan b
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Old 09-22-2004, 02:30 AM   #11
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Of course Islamist terrorism in the future will all be Bush's fault because the middle east was the pinnacle of peace and harmony before Bush embarked on the WoT, it makes so much sense doesn't it. By accepting that the Middle East was a threat to US National Security and taking direct action to shift the dynamics of the region Bush is securing the US interests in the long term, that being energy security and the annihilation of Islamism as a viable political force.

9.11. was a result of ignoring the danger and accepting the world for what it is, it would be a tremendous miscalculation to assume that inaction could deliever any solution other than an even more devastating attack by Islamist terror groups. Bush has effectively depacitated Al Qaeda's leadership and has begun to put pressure on the financiers. If one ends the interference hostile governments such as Iran and Syria within Iraq the chance of success will rise. A second term Bush administration would be prepared to allow an IAF strike against Irans nuclear aspirations and would definitely be more ambitious when dealing with the Israeli / Arab conflict. A successful resolution to these problems could pave the way forward for the ME and set the scene for the next phase.

A nightmare scenario is seeing countries like Pakistan falling under political Islam - every effort must be made to halt nuclear proliferation, especially in Islamic countries - the ideology of the Islamists ensures that first strike nuclear attacks would be a real threat. Nobody can sit on their hands when it comes to this, the US must seek out its national interest where it sees it, the basic truth is the world doesn't like you very much and never will, forget about the UN ever helping out because they are slaves to the "international community" and will make sure that any genocides are given diplomatic right of way and any tin-pot dictators can secure nuclear weapons unimpeded but will grind their heels into the ground if the US ever wanted to do something about it. Your enemies have killed American citizens for decades, they were attacking when Clinton was president and continued attacking, either fight them and their ideology or suffer the concequences. There can never be a diplomatic solution against terrorism.


Note to Indra - there are many Afghans and Iraqi's who would strongly disagree with you saying that Bush has not secured freedom for anyone.
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Old 09-22-2004, 02:49 AM   #12
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So will I confuse anyone if I thought both;

a) The UN is fucked and should be downgraded to just a humanitarian organisation (where it does mostly excellent work)

b) Bush must go.


Neither have the ability to do this thing right.
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Old 09-22-2004, 03:23 AM   #13
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Agreed Earnie.
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Old 09-22-2004, 04:12 AM   #14
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i start to understand why you like Mr. Bush - his view of the world is as black&white as some of your postings

Earnie Shavers
Well if you downgrade the UN to a humanitarian organisation (and cultural i guess) we need an international organisation who handles international crimes which are now in a grey-zone and every country interprets this law like they want.

International Courtrooms for international crimes (like int. terrorism) could really help us now. We also need a international platform for all governments so that we can share problems before we start wars.
I know that the UN isn't perfect but the only thing worse than the UN is no international gremium like this one.
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Old 09-22-2004, 04:34 AM   #15
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The world is not black and white, I understand the complexities of politics and the importance of compromise. I reciognize nuance within diplomacy. But when one learns about the Islamists motivations, goals and operations and actually digs a little deeper the magnitude of the threat and the response to it must become weighted. I do not like Bush because he makes the issues simple for his constituency. I respect the man because he has decided to stand up and fight against the Islamists, he is pursuing the goals of liberty in Iraq and Afghanistan, after one secures Iraq it will drive reform in Jordan and moderate Arab states and could drive a revolution in Iran where the younger generation of "holy warriors" for the Ayatollah are sick of living under political Islam. Tony Blair is a leader who has the eloquence to lay out the case explicitly and has a history of engaging in interventions for those reasons, to me intervention within Iraq was the only sane option, less people died and you have the potential to deliver a stunning victory against the hardcore Islamists.

For the better part of the last 6 years I was a true left wing moron. I watched"The Awful Truth" and laughed at the dumb yanks, talked on and on about Bush being the dumbest president ever using my favorite Bushisms (Fuzzy Math for example), I talked about "root causes" of terrorism and excused Arab terrorism against Jews because I bought the cycle of violence myth (fact: Homocide Bombers families have a higher mean annual incomes than average also there are no Christian Homocide bombers). I continued this basic idiotarianism because I refused to look at the world as it truly was, it is very easy to make excuses for violence by blaming the victim, when one decides to wake up to reality and blame the perpetrator it is a difficult thing to do.

September 11 was a massive wake up call. The first reaction is to ask what would drive people to commit such evil. I looked into it and learnt about Islamist terror throughout the latter 20th Century. The appeasement and how it was tied into US Troops in Saudi Arabia, support for Israel and the abandoning of Afghanistan to the ISI backed thugs of the Taliban. Looked into the WTC Bombing, Bojinka, Embassy Bombings and USS Cole. The pattern is stark, 9/11 was not an abberation of the normal, it was a progression of Islamist violence. Listen to what these groups are saying and it becomes abundantly clear that they seek destruction. They follow a genuine death cult, they represent the antithesis of life - we embrace life and they embrace death, it really is that plain. I am all for analyzing situations objectively and calmly but the ammount of apologists for terrorism who say that the US brought it upon themsleves. To see people refuse to accept that we are dealing with an enemy that does not want peace, that simply wants destruction and has no problem with suicide if it kills lots of innocent people. To see them carve the head off Daniel Pearl was one more explanation point on the self evident truth, we must fight them or well will die. If Islamist groups obtain WMD they will not hesitate to use them and a lot of people will be murdered. I would not want to sit around and wait to attack, the best defence is a very good offence.

The world is not black and white but one can go too far with moral relativism, things will become so grey that one ignores the difference between right and wrong and the resulting apathy allows one to stand by and let evil triumph. The US is not perfect, it has fought dirty just like its enemies but that is no reason to abandon it if it begins to pursue a policy that will undo the damage of ignoring terror and eliminate the scourge of Islamism forever.
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