Bush´s 15 bil to fight AIDS

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hiphop

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This is a post from another forum, I´ll reprint it here

The Bush administration's $15 billion commitment to Aids in Africa and the Caribbean, the biggest single pledge by any US administration, undoubtedly benefits America's pharmaceutical companies, not surprising since

former President George Herbert Walker Bush was a one-time member of the Eli Lilly board of directors

former CEO of Enron, Ken Lay, one-time member of the Eli Lilly board of directors

George W. Bush’s former director of Management and Budget, Mitch Daniels (a former Eli Lilly vice president)

George W. Bush’s Homeland Security Advisory Council member, Sidney Taurel (current CEO of Eli Lilly)

The National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (a recipient of Eli Lilly funding)

but few seriously doubt that its main aim is to improve the wellbeing of the people of Africa and the planet as a whole.

Some of the aid money $86m of the $865m apportioned to fighting AIDS in 2004 goes to Christian faith-based organizations who promote abstinence as a means of preventing sexually transmitted disease.

Way to go George! Let's fight AIDS by preaching abstinence.
 
Big business is not immoral, it is amoral, there is a distinction.

Directing more funding towards programs that promote abstinence exclusively is however not amoral.
 
I listened to a Rep. from the UN talking about US aid and how only US companies can be used for US dollars. She talked about salt tablets in SE Asia that weren't purchased because the logistics of using US companies and the deaths that resulted. She had many more examples. Unfortunately I can't remember her name.

How much of the 15 billion has been appropriated? Not the 6 billion promised by now. Less than 2 billion is more like it.
 
You guys must really dislike it when Bono pays him a compliment.
 
Right...I would think that Bono's comments about Bush and AIDS a mere 48 Hours ago are MORE than relevant to this thread.
 
[Q]BONO: Well, I think he's done an incredible job, his administration, on AIDS. And 250,000 Africans are on antiviral drugs. They literally owe their lives to America. In one year that's being done. But it can't just be AIDS. It has to be the environment in which viruses like AIDS thrive, or malaria. I mean, 3,000 Africans die every day of a mosquito bite. Can you think about that, malaria? That's not acceptable in the 21st century and we can stop it. And water-borne illnesses--dirty water takes another 3,000 lives--children, mothers, sisters.

Yes, there's a lot of pressure on President Bush. If he, though, in his second term, is as bold in his commitments to Africa as he was in the first term, he indeed deserves a place in history in turning the fate of that continent around. If he doesn't I fear that even the good work that he has started will be forgotten by history and that really makes me very, very sad, because I worked on a lot of this stuff, the AIDS initiative and the Millennium Challenge, and really want to see--I think he deserves his place in history here. I believe he has the heart for it, but his advisors are going to have to let him go to Gleneagles with something other than timid proposals and pilot programs and rhetoric. They're going to have to let him sign, you know, a proper check. One billions dollars is all it would take to save a million lives from malaria, with bed nets, etc., $1 billion. Four billion dollars, you could change the world. From the United States, an extra commitment of $4 billion.

[/Q]


[Q]BONO: Absolutely. This is the other war. This is a war that can be won so much more easily than the war against terror, and we wish the president and others luck in winning the war against terror. But this- -there will be a time when AIDS, you know, they'll find a vaccine, it will be over, malaria will be over. No, this is an issue that I think can unite Europe, can unite the world. And remember the rest of the world are very suspicious about the G8 countries, about the industrialized world. They're not sure, you know, if we have any values. They're not sure who we are. They meet us with our military, they meet us with our trade, our movies, our, you know, commodities. But they need to meet who we are on a deeper level. And that's where they meet us with foreign assistance.

And if it's spent well, if it's not used to redecorate presidential palaces and as it's not now. This is targeted, focused aid we're talking about now, only given to people who are tackling corruption. Then everyone's with them. Now, this is, I think, this will unite people. And I fear--and it's the reason I'm talking to you today--that, you know, because there's so much going of in America with the war in Iraq and stuff, that you might miss this opportunity. I love America. I believe in America. It offends me, it upsets me when the rest of the world thinks America is not doing enough. The president is right to say they're doing a quarter of all aid to Africa. He has doubled, even tripled if he follows through, aid to Africa. But they are about to double aid, the rest of Europe, to double aid, so that will leave America as one-eighth of all aid going to Africa if they don't match that. And that's not a place Americans want to be, one-eighth. And that will be Europe doing four times as much as America. You know, I want to encourage Americans just to give their president permission. I know he wants to do this, but his advisers must break with this kind of fiscal conservativity on this one issue. This is the moment to be generous right now. I'm sure of that.

[/Q]
 
Dreadsox said:
Right...I would think that Bono's comments about Bush and AIDS a mere 48 Hours ago are MORE than relevant to this thread.

Arguably, yes.

But this thread is more about governmental ties to pharma companies and aid money going to Christian organizations than about Bono´s comments.

If your third post was your first, and you hadn´t kept your first comment to a single sentence that is totally offtopic because it deals with our perception of Bono´s compliments (and not with any original issue of this thread at all), I wouldn´t have warned you.
 
Dreadsox said:
[Q] He has doubled, even tripled if he follows through, aid to Africa.
[/Q]

"IF HE FOLLOWS THROUGH" is the point. So far he has only fallen behind his original proposals. His track record thus far is dismal. He can't get his party to pass his less than promised appropriations (3 billion per year, about 300 million appropriated first year 400 million the next).

I would love for him to follow through on his promises and increase it to .7% GDP. I can look pass partisianship to make a real impact in Africa ect.

It could be the only highlight of his Presidency.
 
The ammount of aid given to a country over sustained periods of time is inversely proportional to economic growth.
 
The National Alliance for the Mentally Ill is actually pretty cool, they just happen to get $$ from a pharmaceutical company. I would guess this is to try to give themselves a human face. Yes, the pharmaceutical companies are making a killing these days, courtesy of the Bush Administration.
 
Dreadsox,

Do you actually think that Bono is dumb enough to sit there and criticize Bush when he needs something from him?

I think Bono's smart enough to play at the political flattery game when he has to. And remember: "...if he follows through..."
 
whenhiphopdrovethebigcars said:

I wouldn´t have warned you.

Sounds threatening...Should I be?

AS for anyone's ties to any company, find me anyone in Washington NOT tied to one company or another somehow.
 
echo0001 said:
Dreadsox,

Do you actually think that Bono is dumb enough to sit there and criticize Bush when he needs something from him?

I think Bono's smart enough to play at the political flattery game when he has to. And remember: "...if he follows through..."

Do you actually think Bono would point out that Bush has ALREADY done more than any other President to fight this cause?

Yes, I give Bono a world of credit, however, he has spoken words about Bush in his book as well, long before meet the Press.

And my point is not that the US is doing enough....but that Bush has us going in the right direction...

It appears to me that the initial post of this thread is to point out that potentially the President is only doing something so that his friends can make a profit.

Apparently the President can do nothing right....
 
If Bush spent that same money on generic AIDS drugs, rather than giving corporate welfare to overpriced American drugs, I'm sure that 250,000 figure could be exponentially increased.

Melon
 
Oh, just shut up already.

I swear to God, even when Bush does something good, liberal conspiracy theorists have to turn it around to try to make him look bad for it. Give the guy a fucking break. You're mad that he unjustly took us to war in Iraq? Fine. You're mad about his stances on social security and the like? Fine. You're mad about his stances on gay marriage and abortion? Fine. But when he's finally doing something good with his power, you bash him for it? I'm afraid I don't quite see the logic there.

I'd think that it would be better to support him as far as things like this go, while encouraging him to maybe spend a little more of his time on things like this. You know, pat him on the back and make him realize that people want him to do more things concerning AIDS and the like as opposed to spending money on war. If he sees that his approval ratings might go up a bit if he supports more things like providing aid, he might do more of it.

...But no. Let's find some way to make him look bad for it. That'll show 'em.

:rolleyes:
 
XHendrix24 said:
Oh, just shut up already.

I swear to God, even when Bush does something good, liberal conspiracy theorists have to turn it around to try to make him look bad for it. Give the guy a fucking break. You're mad that he unjustly took us to war in Iraq? Fine. You're mad about his stances on social security and the like? Fine. You're mad about his stances on gay marriage and abortion? Fine. But when he's finally doing something good with his power, you bash him for it? I'm afraid I don't quite see the logic there.

I'd think that it would be better to support him as far as things like this go, while encouraging him to maybe spend a little more of his time on things like this. You know, pat him on the back and make him realize that people want him to do more things concerning AIDS and the like as opposed to spending money on war. If he sees that his approval ratings might go up a bit if he supports more things like providing aid, he might do more of it.

...But no. Let's find some way to make him look bad for it. That'll show 'em.

:rolleyes:

Well I won't bash him for what he's started, but I agree he could be doing 2 to 3 times the amount of good if he wasn't looking to help his friends. I don't think it's too much to ask one to do just one thing 100% for humanity.
 
Dreadsox said:

Sounds threatening...Should I be?

But no. And you know it very well. Tell me a better english expression for what I wanted to say. I warned you not to hijack this thread.

Now don´t put on my nerves and admit you were off-topic. Shouldn´t be such a problem for you, or is it? :shrug:
 
whenhiphopdrovethebigcars said:


But this thread is more about governmental ties to pharma companies and aid money going to Christian organizations than about Bono´s comments.


I'm sorry, your problem with money going to Christian organizations is...?

And who would you prefer money to go to, rather than pharma orgs actually in a position to provide solutions to the problem?

Boy, on one hand -- he's not doing enough, and then when he does, you criticize. Some people will never be happy.
 
melon said:
If Bush spent that same money on generic AIDS drugs, rather than giving corporate welfare to overpriced American drugs, I'm sure that 250,000 figure could be exponentially increased.

You're right. Let's not give the Africans the best possible medicines. Let's give 'em sub-standard ones manufactured by countries that have much lower safety standards than the FDA, and perhaps create a bigger problem.
 
nathan1977 said:


You're right. Let's not give the Africans the best possible medicines. Let's give 'em sub-standard ones manufactured by countries that have much lower safety standards than the FDA, and perhaps create a bigger problem.

That's such bullshit. Americans use generic medications everyday. The majority of Americans are on generics right now.
 
Dreadsox said:

It appears to me that the initial post of this thread is to point out that potentially the President is only doing something so that his friends can make a profit.

Your impression is wrong. I called Pres. Bush´s office a week ago to thank him.

The initial post of this thread makes it clear that there is also some profit for Bush and his friends in fighting AIDS. That he would only do that to make his friends make a profit, is your very own interpretation.

However, there are multi-billion pharma companies that refuse to hand out their meds for free, which should ring an alarm bell in every Christian´s morality set. Or did Jesus tell that we have to make profit by helping the poor, Dreadsox?

You haven´t commented on the effectivity of promoting abstinence. Repeated, $86m of the $865m apportioned to fighting AIDS in 2004 goes to Christian faith-based organizations who promote abstinence as a means of preventing sexually transmitted disease. Now this is really gonna help the dying African children. Congratulations, President Bush.
 
XHendrix24 said:
Oh, just shut up already.

It's not my job to give a thumbs up to a half-assed gesture that wastes our money. It is only living up to a fraction of its potential to help people, but I guess when people look at large monetary figures, they don't give a rat's ass about what's done with it.

That's the problem with Westerners. As long as the money is there for good media sound bites, they don't care what's done with it.

Melon
 
nathan1977 said:


I'm sorry, your problem with money going to Christian organizations is...?

And who would you prefer money to go to, rather than pharma orgs actually in a position to provide solutions to the problem?

Boy, on one hand -- he's not doing enough, and then when he does, you criticize. Some people will never be happy.

My problem is that those are not Christian organizations like the Caritas or local African Christian organizations, but organizations who promote abstinence as a solution to the problem.

I would prefer the money to go to Africans, directly, each and every African family. No one can tell me that´s too difficult, it´s a simple thing, they got bank accounts there, see. Also all the corruption problem wouldn´t be an issue either.

I would prefer if pharma companies are forced by law to give those meds out for free. Oh, probably that´s a little extreme in your view. But radical problems need radical solutions. Pharma industry makes more than enough $$ every single day when we buy the meds for lots of money. That´s ok, we can afford it. Africans can´t.

Where is the private sector in his support for Bush´s plans here? Why doesn´t the private sector stand up and do something for the well-being of a future consumer market? I´ll tell you an example why; its because Shell and Firestone still exploit Nigeria and Liberia. It´s because the pharma industry is more interested in stealing and patenting the latest bushmen´s medicines to create new pills they can sell to us - instead of caring about the survival of just those bushmen.

Where is private economy? One hears Bill Gates does a lot, one hears that or there is charity, but a general good-will, a giving will, a helping will, misses totally. Nigeria only gets 20% of the oil price in U.S. and Europe. The resources of a whole continent are still robbed. If you think that multinational corporations want to change that principle, I guess you´re wrong.

What we would need in this globalized world, is an international agreement that changes unfair terms of trade. Not a bloody band-aid. I appreciate every effort of Bush to seriously help out in this crisis, and especially every effort of restless Bono. But I will not stop to critizise Bush (or any other political leader, for that matter) and his friends in the multinational corporations if they make a profit off it.
 
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melon said:


It's not my job to give a thumbs up to a half-assed gesture that wastes our money. It is only living up to a fraction of its potential to help people, but I guess when people look at large monetary figures, they don't give a rat's ass about what's done with it.

That's the problem with Westerners. As long as the money is there for good media sound bites, they don't care what's done with it.

Melon

Hmm. Let's see here. $15 billion for providing aid to Africa. How is that, in any way, shape or form, a "half-assed gesture"? I mean, if you consider the contribution from the US as a half-assed gesture, I'd hate to hear what you think of the other countries' contributions.

But you know what? Maybe Bush could be doing more to ensure that people are helped by that $15 billion. But just because it's possible that he could do better, that doesn't mean that he isn't doing good. The fact that more lives might be saved from using cheaper generic drugs shouldn't negate the fact that many lives will be saved from the US' part. Either way, America's contribution is going to save countless peoples' lives, and I personally think that fact should be celebrated more than criticized.

Basically, it's not a "half-assed gesture," and I strongly disagree with the notion that saving lives "wastes our money." I swear, it's amazing how much people bitch and moan about a good thing.

Oh, and just for reference, the "shut up" comment wasn't directed at you personally, Melon. It was intended as more of a collective "shut up." Just in case there was any confusion. :wink:
 
nathan1977 said:


You're right. Let's not give the Africans the best possible medicines. Let's give 'em sub-standard ones manufactured by countries that have much lower safety standards than the FDA, and perhaps create a bigger problem.

I regularly use generics. There's no real difference except in the price tags. Generally generics are also made in the U.S. Now that they are cracking down on Canadian imports the next big import market just might be Israel.
 
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whenhiphopdrovethebigcars said:


My problem is that those are not Christian organizations like the Caritas or local African Christian organizations, but organizations who promote abstinence as a solution to the problem.

I agree with this....I do not agree with giving them money directly.
 
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