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Old 06-29-2005, 08:47 AM   #16
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If Bush spent that same money on generic AIDS drugs, rather than giving corporate welfare to overpriced American drugs, I'm sure that 250,000 figure could be exponentially increased.

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Old 06-29-2005, 09:51 AM   #17
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Oh, just shut up already.

I swear to God, even when Bush does something good, liberal conspiracy theorists have to turn it around to try to make him look bad for it. Give the guy a fucking break. You're mad that he unjustly took us to war in Iraq? Fine. You're mad about his stances on social security and the like? Fine. You're mad about his stances on gay marriage and abortion? Fine. But when he's finally doing something good with his power, you bash him for it? I'm afraid I don't quite see the logic there.

I'd think that it would be better to support him as far as things like this go, while encouraging him to maybe spend a little more of his time on things like this. You know, pat him on the back and make him realize that people want him to do more things concerning AIDS and the like as opposed to spending money on war. If he sees that his approval ratings might go up a bit if he supports more things like providing aid, he might do more of it.

...But no. Let's find some way to make him look bad for it. That'll show 'em.

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Old 06-29-2005, 09:52 AM   #18
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but we must criticize the good things that have actually happened dont we?
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Old 06-29-2005, 09:53 AM   #19
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nevermind
hendrix said it for me
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Old 06-29-2005, 11:05 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by XHendrix24
Oh, just shut up already.

I swear to God, even when Bush does something good, liberal conspiracy theorists have to turn it around to try to make him look bad for it. Give the guy a fucking break. You're mad that he unjustly took us to war in Iraq? Fine. You're mad about his stances on social security and the like? Fine. You're mad about his stances on gay marriage and abortion? Fine. But when he's finally doing something good with his power, you bash him for it? I'm afraid I don't quite see the logic there.

I'd think that it would be better to support him as far as things like this go, while encouraging him to maybe spend a little more of his time on things like this. You know, pat him on the back and make him realize that people want him to do more things concerning AIDS and the like as opposed to spending money on war. If he sees that his approval ratings might go up a bit if he supports more things like providing aid, he might do more of it.

...But no. Let's find some way to make him look bad for it. That'll show 'em.

Well I won't bash him for what he's started, but I agree he could be doing 2 to 3 times the amount of good if he wasn't looking to help his friends. I don't think it's too much to ask one to do just one thing 100% for humanity.
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Old 06-29-2005, 11:28 AM   #21
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Originally posted by Dreadsox

Sounds threatening...Should I be?
But no. And you know it very well. Tell me a better english expression for what I wanted to say. I warned you not to hijack this thread.

Now don´t put on my nerves and admit you were off-topic. Shouldn´t be such a problem for you, or is it?
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Old 06-29-2005, 11:28 AM   #22
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


But this thread is more about governmental ties to pharma companies and aid money going to Christian organizations than about Bono´s comments.

I'm sorry, your problem with money going to Christian organizations is...?

And who would you prefer money to go to, rather than pharma orgs actually in a position to provide solutions to the problem?

Boy, on one hand -- he's not doing enough, and then when he does, you criticize. Some people will never be happy.
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Old 06-29-2005, 11:30 AM   #23
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Originally posted by melon
If Bush spent that same money on generic AIDS drugs, rather than giving corporate welfare to overpriced American drugs, I'm sure that 250,000 figure could be exponentially increased.
You're right. Let's not give the Africans the best possible medicines. Let's give 'em sub-standard ones manufactured by countries that have much lower safety standards than the FDA, and perhaps create a bigger problem.
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Old 06-29-2005, 11:36 AM   #24
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Originally posted by nathan1977


You're right. Let's not give the Africans the best possible medicines. Let's give 'em sub-standard ones manufactured by countries that have much lower safety standards than the FDA, and perhaps create a bigger problem.
That's such bullshit. Americans use generic medications everyday. The majority of Americans are on generics right now.
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Old 06-29-2005, 11:41 AM   #25
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Originally posted by Dreadsox

It appears to me that the initial post of this thread is to point out that potentially the President is only doing something so that his friends can make a profit.
Your impression is wrong. I called Pres. Bush´s office a week ago to thank him.

The initial post of this thread makes it clear that there is also some profit for Bush and his friends in fighting AIDS. That he would only do that to make his friends make a profit, is your very own interpretation.

However, there are multi-billion pharma companies that refuse to hand out their meds for free, which should ring an alarm bell in every Christian´s morality set. Or did Jesus tell that we have to make profit by helping the poor, Dreadsox?

You haven´t commented on the effectivity of promoting abstinence. Repeated, $86m of the $865m apportioned to fighting AIDS in 2004 goes to Christian faith-based organizations who promote abstinence as a means of preventing sexually transmitted disease. Now this is really gonna help the dying African children. Congratulations, President Bush.
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Old 06-29-2005, 11:59 AM   #26
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Originally posted by XHendrix24
Oh, just shut up already.
It's not my job to give a thumbs up to a half-assed gesture that wastes our money. It is only living up to a fraction of its potential to help people, but I guess when people look at large monetary figures, they don't give a rat's ass about what's done with it.

That's the problem with Westerners. As long as the money is there for good media sound bites, they don't care what's done with it.

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Old 06-29-2005, 12:00 PM   #27
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Originally posted by nathan1977


I'm sorry, your problem with money going to Christian organizations is...?

And who would you prefer money to go to, rather than pharma orgs actually in a position to provide solutions to the problem?

Boy, on one hand -- he's not doing enough, and then when he does, you criticize. Some people will never be happy.
My problem is that those are not Christian organizations like the Caritas or local African Christian organizations, but organizations who promote abstinence as a solution to the problem.

I would prefer the money to go to Africans, directly, each and every African family. No one can tell me that´s too difficult, it´s a simple thing, they got bank accounts there, see. Also all the corruption problem wouldn´t be an issue either.

I would prefer if pharma companies are forced by law to give those meds out for free. Oh, probably that´s a little extreme in your view. But radical problems need radical solutions. Pharma industry makes more than enough $$ every single day when we buy the meds for lots of money. That´s ok, we can afford it. Africans can´t.

Where is the private sector in his support for Bush´s plans here? Why doesn´t the private sector stand up and do something for the well-being of a future consumer market? I´ll tell you an example why; its because Shell and Firestone still exploit Nigeria and Liberia. It´s because the pharma industry is more interested in stealing and patenting the latest bushmen´s medicines to create new pills they can sell to us - instead of caring about the survival of just those bushmen.

Where is private economy? One hears Bill Gates does a lot, one hears that or there is charity, but a general good-will, a giving will, a helping will, misses totally. Nigeria only gets 20% of the oil price in U.S. and Europe. The resources of a whole continent are still robbed. If you think that multinational corporations want to change that principle, I guess you´re wrong.

What we would need in this globalized world, is an international agreement that changes unfair terms of trade. Not a bloody band-aid. I appreciate every effort of Bush to seriously help out in this crisis, and especially every effort of restless Bono. But I will not stop to critizise Bush (or any other political leader, for that matter) and his friends in the multinational corporations if they make a profit off it.
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Old 06-29-2005, 01:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


It's not my job to give a thumbs up to a half-assed gesture that wastes our money. It is only living up to a fraction of its potential to help people, but I guess when people look at large monetary figures, they don't give a rat's ass about what's done with it.

That's the problem with Westerners. As long as the money is there for good media sound bites, they don't care what's done with it.

Melon
Hmm. Let's see here. $15 billion for providing aid to Africa. How is that, in any way, shape or form, a "half-assed gesture"? I mean, if you consider the contribution from the US as a half-assed gesture, I'd hate to hear what you think of the other countries' contributions.

But you know what? Maybe Bush could be doing more to ensure that people are helped by that $15 billion. But just because it's possible that he could do better, that doesn't mean that he isn't doing good. The fact that more lives might be saved from using cheaper generic drugs shouldn't negate the fact that many lives will be saved from the US' part. Either way, America's contribution is going to save countless peoples' lives, and I personally think that fact should be celebrated more than criticized.

Basically, it's not a "half-assed gesture," and I strongly disagree with the notion that saving lives "wastes our money." I swear, it's amazing how much people bitch and moan about a good thing.

Oh, and just for reference, the "shut up" comment wasn't directed at you personally, Melon. It was intended as more of a collective "shut up." Just in case there was any confusion.
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Old 06-29-2005, 02:28 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977


You're right. Let's not give the Africans the best possible medicines. Let's give 'em sub-standard ones manufactured by countries that have much lower safety standards than the FDA, and perhaps create a bigger problem.
I regularly use generics. There's no real difference except in the price tags. Generally generics are also made in the U.S. Now that they are cracking down on Canadian imports the next big import market just might be Israel.
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Old 06-29-2005, 02:41 PM   #30
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


My problem is that those are not Christian organizations like the Caritas or local African Christian organizations, but organizations who promote abstinence as a solution to the problem.
I agree with this....I do not agree with giving them money directly.
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