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Old 06-03-2005, 03:40 PM   #16
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From what I've read, Gordon Brown's plan would only relieve poor countries of 30-35% of their debts as the debt relief period would end in 2015.
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Old 06-03-2005, 03:54 PM   #17
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One of the reasons I stopped calling myself an American and started using the more technical label of "American citizen." That distance is allowing me to contain the rage I've been feeling. When I can reconnect with the values my leaders are showing, I'll reconsider. I love my country, but I don't identify with it much nowadays. I'm disenfranchised and disaffected and neither side speaks with my voice. Now I'm just sad.
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Old 06-03-2005, 05:38 PM   #18
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Originally posted by BonosSaint
One of the reasons I stopped calling myself an American and started using the more technical label of "American citizen."

I hear you.


I believe "Christian" has been hi-jacked by the same people seeking political power.

If I were to label myself I would say I am a
"follower of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth".
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Old 06-03-2005, 05:57 PM   #19
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Originally posted by deep



I hear you.


I believe "Christian" has been hi-jacked by the same people seeking political power.

If I were to label myself I would say I am a
"follower of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth".
And I hear you!
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Old 06-03-2005, 06:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by meegannie
From what I've read, Gordon Brown's plan would only relieve poor countries of 30-35% of their debts as the debt relief period would end in 2015.
That being true, but its a start, it will obviously be looked into before this period of time would end. But this is not the point, the point is that America (being one of the richest countries in the world) is not willing to do what is right, Uk isnt that big yet it has the heart to at least recognise that progress needs to be made. I think that 30 - 35% Is reasonable for one country if that is what you meant, theres another 7 members in the G8 that need to understand the enormity of the problem.

Th UK is taking this on board. what about the rest of the world.
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Old 06-03-2005, 06:49 PM   #21
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Call me cynical but did anyone really think Bush was going to put any real effort into Africa?
I definitely did not. If this jerk offered a drowning man a glass of water, I'd be surprised....

-damn Texas Republican...
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Old 06-03-2005, 06:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
One of the reasons I stopped calling myself an American and started using the more technical label of "American citizen." That distance is allowing me to contain the rage I've been feeling. When I can reconnect with the values my leaders are showing, I'll reconsider. I love my country, but I don't identify with it much nowadays. I'm disenfranchised and disaffected and neither side speaks with my voice. Now I'm just sad.
Sad doesn't cover it. I am ashamed. I am ashamed of my country, my government, certain of my fellow Americans who are so insular and selfish that they don't care what happens to the rest of the world....I am ashamed. It makes me want to scream. Or burn a flag.
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Old 06-03-2005, 06:59 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep



I hear you.


I believe "Christian" has been hi-jacked by the same people seeking political power.

If I were to label myself I would say I am a
"follower of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth".
That I can appreciate.
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Old 06-03-2005, 11:14 PM   #24
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Um guys....

Coming from this leftist New Yorker...


Don't overboard please. There's no need to damn Texas, ( a great place), or Republicans in general. Some of the country's greatest people are Republicans, though I couldn't vote for them (I believe in Big Gov't these days, as a foil to Big Business) and dasly in Congress they seem to be the older ones.

As to Christian...people say "Christian" as a n abberviation for "born-again Christian" (someone who has invited Jesus Christ into their lives as their personal Lord and Savior and undergone a baptism process in which they recieve the gift of glossolalia. Or at least you are purified. This takes different forms in different denominations but the end result is the same.)

Now, it has taken on a more insidious meaning, as differentiating conservative, Republican (OF COURSE) "people of faith" who adhere to a certain political party line on certain issues and have a ploitical mindset and activism that is often contrary to the inculsive and compassionate teachings of Jeus Christ. These days, you are supposed to be able to tell a Christain by what they AREN'T.

That's why I say, "I;m saved" if I'm witht he right people, and "I have an active spiritual life" if I'm not.
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Old 06-04-2005, 02:12 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by ClaytonMan


I think that 30 - 35% Is reasonable for one country if that is what you meant, theres another 7 members in the G8 that need to understand the enormity of the problem.

The 30-35% total debt relief percent is for the whole plan, not just the UK's contribution. Less than half of the countries identified by Jubilee 2000T as needed debt relief are elligible under Brown's plan. There are also a lot of concerns about the conditions of British aid, like privatization of water and other public services and trade liberalization.
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Old 06-04-2005, 02:43 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by echo0001


Sad doesn't cover it. I am ashamed. I am ashamed of my country, my government, certain of my fellow Americans who are so insular and selfish that they don't care what happens to the rest of the world....I am ashamed. It makes me want to scream. Or burn a flag.
It's sad that you feel ashamed, though I dont think you should. Many Americans do care as much as or less, or even more than others. It isn't uniquely American, and not your country as a whole which is to blame or be angered at or ashamed of. Even some people who support Bush will care. I guess what I'm trying to say is, the thinking that Bush's party is going with is not reflective of any one group and certainly not your whole country.
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Old 06-04-2005, 11:17 PM   #27
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So what happened to the 3.2 Billion dollars of aid that Bush is giving to Africa, which is triple of what was being given before he took office.

according to the Bush administration - (quoted from NYT)
"the United States favors a more gradual build up of aid, the officials said. It contends that the problem is less a lack of money than the ability of poor countries with weak institutions to spend it wisely."

opposing one plan doesn't mean Bush has never or will never put effort into Africa, although i do think that the more we do the better.
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Old 06-04-2005, 11:29 PM   #28
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Why a gradual build up when we have the resources and they are available now?

And secondly, the prejudice that the inability of poor countries to handle aid because of corruption is really not accuracte. Africa's governance is poor because Africa is poor.
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Old 06-04-2005, 11:38 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by echo0001


Sad doesn't cover it. I am ashamed. I am ashamed of my country, my government, certain of my fellow Americans who are so insular and selfish that they don't care what happens to the rest of the world....I am ashamed. It makes me want to scream. Or burn a flag.
Then take a look around at the millions of people in America who give generously and get proud.
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Old 06-05-2005, 12:40 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by learn2kneel
So what happened to the 3.2 Billion dollars of aid that Bush is giving to Africa, which is triple of what was being given before he took office.

according to the Bush administration - (quoted from NYT)
"the United States favors a more gradual build up of aid, the officials said. It contends that the problem is less a lack of money than the ability of poor countries with weak institutions to spend it wisely."

opposing one plan doesn't mean Bush has never or will never put effort into Africa, although i do think that the more we do the better.
The fact is he hasn't done shit. He promised he would do one thing, but couldn't get his party to vote on it. Now we all know how his party is devoted to him(they've blinded voted for everything except this). If his party didn't vote for it, then he did nothing to promote.

He's all talk and a lot of BULLSHIT!!!
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