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Old 01-20-2003, 01:32 AM   #16
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ya, i agree with bush on this one. affirmative action is BASED on races. anything based on that surely cant be politically correct in a democratic and free society.

as for melons question as to what would be acceptable i dont know. its a shame that rascim exists to begin with, but it simply does.

good to see bush make a good move now and then :P
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Old 01-20-2003, 05:18 AM   #17
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Originally posted by melon
I was once told that if we went solely on grades, only Asians would be admitted into most graduate programs, and would likely take up a large portion of undergraduate admissions. Something to think about...

Melon
That in theory should not be an issue either. If that happened, and grades were used as the sole determining factor and thus resulted in Asian students gaining most places in graduate and undergraduate programs, keeping the race argument as voided, it then becomes time to look at the precursors. You dont penalise the group that has the advantage. If students of an Asian background do have the upper hand academically and only statistics can really answer that, you need to up the ability of peers who are comparitively disadvantaged. As school is the step before university does part of the problem lie there? It leads back to the tired old adage of increased funding, more programs to assist those with aspirations of gaining a degree after school, more teachers, more resources etc etc. If uni's are filled with Asians, or WASPs, or Hispanics or whatever, so be it. You need more opportunities for those who are missing out, not limitations on those who qualify and base it on their race. Hell, it might even lead to a more educated and therefore financially independant generation and eliminate some of that poverty too many already face. But that is in theory and it takes money. So much money. Its a crying shame more aren't willing to help spend to address the root issues.
This wasn't addressed specifically to you either melon, your point just made me ponder all of that.
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Old 01-20-2003, 10:25 AM   #18
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Asian countries spend the least per capita on education, but usually have the best students.

Are we raising a generation of "slackers "
Oh dear.

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Old 01-20-2003, 11:01 AM   #19
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In my oppinion, I believe that basing your acceptance should also be slightly on race... here are my reasons..
1. believe it or not, being a college student, it def. adds to the diversity which adds itself to education... Being a Pakistani Muslim I have learnt so much more based on the diversity of my peer students... This is sooo important, simply because it effects how one percieves this whole world (political issues, etc, etc.). It would suck it you were studying about the Middle East, S. East Asia, or African culture or history without having people in the classroom that are from that part of the world... how would we be sure that valid info was being taugt...
In my Islam and the west class, the prof's were giving out some invalid info, so I had to correct them...

2. Also, with every race comes a different culture, and language... It is (sometimes) slightly tougher for kids who have english as their second language to achieve an equal standing on SATs...
It was def. really tough for me, and some other students that i know of...

these are just my oppinions, I think they weigh pretty heavy...

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Old 01-20-2003, 11:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
This wasn't addressed specifically to you either melon, your point just made me ponder all of that.
I mainly brought up the point, because I think this is an "angry white yuppie" issue, where they think they aren't getting into college because of the "minorities"--the "Other." To bring up the fact that someone a part of the "Other" might be smarter than them is often a difficult realization.

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Old 01-20-2003, 12:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


I mainly brought up the point, because I think this is an "angry white yuppie" issue, where they think they aren't getting into college because of the "minorities"--the "Other." To bring up the fact that someone a part of the "Other" might be smarter than them is often a difficult realization.

Melon
Melon,

Please forgive me if I make no sense on this post I am violating my no posting rules after taking some pain medicine.

I think the idea of giving someone points based on race is redilculous. All I want is to see an even playing field. If someone has what it takes to get it, I could care less what race they are. In my humble opinion, it would force everyone to step it up if they want to get ahead (everyone). I think it is not fair to say that "angry white yuppies" can't handle it if someone is smarter than them. Good grief, half my class is smarter than me.

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Old 01-20-2003, 12:38 PM   #22
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What you're bringing up, obviously, is the notion of objectivity. As happy as I would be to see that, it doesn't exist. Objectivity is a fallacy, and there will always be subjective prejudices in admissions policies, just as there are subjective prejudices in everything in life.

But how do these people know that they didn't get into U of M because of minorities? They don't. They're just guessing, and minorities are the convenient "Other" scapegoat to make them feel better. Racism, at times, is a two-way street.

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Old 01-20-2003, 12:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
I was once told that if we went solely on grades, only Asians would be admitted into most graduate programs, and would likely take up a large portion of undergraduate admissions. Something to think about...
Something I have also heard. An interesting question - why do you thing this is true? Is there a lesson for all of us to learn?
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Old 01-20-2003, 06:02 PM   #24
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"BUSH FIGHTS ________<----insert something new here"
why all the fighting and violence? can't we just TALK it over? hahahha.
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Old 01-20-2003, 08:39 PM   #25
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that a number of school, particularly those of the Ivy League persuasion look favourably upon / award points to children of past alumni? That in itself is an interesting issue - how many alumni from Harlem has Yale got compared to loaded WASP alumni? I'm not sure what should be done, but clearly, the education afforded to the children of the USA works on a type of caste system, particularly when you look at who is funded more. Until that evens out, I'm not sure what to do about the issue.
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Old 01-20-2003, 10:18 PM   #26
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Anitram is on to something with that post, and not only Ivy League colleges give preference to "legacy" applicants; plenty of other schools do it. What's to be done about that, eh?
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Old 01-21-2003, 07:27 AM   #27
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Dang, you mean my child has a chance to get into the state school I attended? HEHEHEHE!!!!!!

Seriously, I was thinking about how GW got into Yale....HEHE!!!!! How many points did they give him??????


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Old 01-21-2003, 09:44 AM   #28
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Of course none of us had the hard time getting into school that George did, I mean he had to work his ass off.

Affirmative action was a band-aid fix to a much larger problem that has been discussed very intelligently in this forum. The problem is if you remove this band aid without first implementing a long term plan, this nation will come close to bleeding to death. When you have a wound this big you apply aid to the wound then bandage the wound, and then you don't remove the bandage until things are healed. Bush is planning on removing the bandage without any other plan. We could possibly be looking at a very infectious disease spreading across this country.
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Old 01-22-2003, 12:59 AM   #29
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Fixing failing inner-city schools is considerably more complicated than it might seem.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_1_how_i_joined.html


This publication in which this article appears seems to be a rather conservative one, but the author is a self-professed liberal.

I don't know the author personally. But I have played Ultimate frisbee against him a number of times,so he can't be completely off his rocker.

Anyway, it's hard to draw general conclusions from anecdotal evidence, so take this article for what it's worth.
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Old 01-22-2003, 08:26 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer
Fixing failing inner-city schools is considerably more complicated than it might seem.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_1_how_i_joined.html


This publication in which this article appears seems to be a rather conservative one, but the author is a self-professed liberal.

I don't know the author personally. But I have played Ultimate frisbee against him a number of times,so he can't be completely off his rocker.

Anyway, it's hard to draw general conclusions from anecdotal evidence, so take this article for what it's worth.
I remember why I went to private schools for 12 years, although the teachers there liked to pick favorites with the "popular" kids. Needless to say, I never made that cut, but, as I always said to myself, at least I'm learning something.

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