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Old 07-03-2007, 04:27 PM   #91
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Originally posted by MadelynIris
They didn't order the leak. One Sunday morning, an op-ed appears in the paper from a former diplomat.

The white house assembled a rebuttal, and in the process disclosed that this former diplomat was sent by his wife (or his wife's boss). His wife happened to work at the CIA. Very strange. When everyone went to investigate, including Novak, they printed what they found out.

Scooter's account went against others. Therefore, he lied, therefore, 3 years prison.
He perjured himself! That's a felony! Last I checked, a felony is a serious crime. Especially something involving government matters.

Let alone the suspicion of a cover-up, it is a fair sentence.
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Old 07-03-2007, 04:28 PM   #92
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No, of course not. Please.
So then what is the purpose of discussing Armitage here? What is the purpose of discussing Clinton?

And as for the excessive sentencing - talk about a Republican talking point. It is within the guidelines for the offences for which he was convicted. By the way, they mandate a prison sentence. If Bush felt it was excessive, he was free to have Libby sit in jail for 15 months and then pardon him when he left office. Or 10 months and pardon him. But he did no such thing, he completely commuted the sentence.

For those who feel it's excessive, on what grounds, legally do you feel that way. And second, do you believe he should have served no time when the sentencing guidelines for perjury and obstruction of justice call for a prison term?
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Old 07-03-2007, 04:28 PM   #93
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The scandal is Cheney ordering a leak of a non-covert agent's name, you mean?
Non-covert? Her covert status was confirmed!
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Old 07-03-2007, 04:40 PM   #94
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Not having the stats of "average sentences for perjury" in front of me, I'm mostly going on what I've heard and read from the media, and their feelings on the sentence.

Even the most liberal columnists have felt this way too:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...061801366.html

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I don't expect George Bush to appreciate this. He is the privileged son of a privileged son, and he fears nothing except, probably, doubt. But the rest of us ought to consider what Fitzgerald has wrought and whether we are better off for his efforts. I have come to hate the war and I cannot approve of lying under oath -- not by Scooter, not by Bill Clinton, not by anybody. But the underlying crime is absent, the sentence is excessive and the investigation should not have been conducted in the first place. This is a mess. Should Libby be pardoned? Maybe. Should his sentence be commuted? Definitely.
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Old 07-03-2007, 04:44 PM   #95
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Originally posted by anitram
And as for the excessive sentencing - talk about a Republican talking point. It is within the guidelines for the offences for which he was convicted. By the way, they mandate a prison sentence. If Bush felt it was excessive, he was free to have Libby sit in jail for 15 months and then pardon him when he left office. Or 10 months and pardon him. But he did no such thing, he completely commuted the sentence.
What exactly are the guidelines, i.e. minimum and maximum?
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Old 07-03-2007, 04:47 PM   #96
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Originally posted by MadelynIris
Not having the stats of "average sentences for perjury" in front of me, I'm mostly going on what I've heard and read from the media, and their feelings on the sentence.

Even the most liberal columnists have felt this way too:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...061801366.html

Columnists don't write the law. The law calls for prison terms, as Anitram said.

When I ask why you think it is excessive, I'm not asking you to find people who think it is excessive. I don't see how it is.
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Old 07-03-2007, 04:49 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris


Even the most liberal columnists have felt this way too:
Why do columnist count more than juries?
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Old 07-03-2007, 04:55 PM   #98
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Like I said, I don't have stats, but a variety of folks, like Dershowitz, Law professor at Harvard saying:
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DERSHOWITZ: Well, considering all of the circumstances of the case, first offender, good record, generally, you wouldn't get a sentence of that length, especially since judges now have enormous discretion -- we'll find out in the next days or weeks how much discretion -- but they generally have discretion to tailor the sentence to the particular defendant. And...
http://newsbusters.org/node/13370
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:01 PM   #99
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Why do columnist count more than juries?
BVS, did the jury impose the sentence?
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:03 PM   #100
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newsbusters...
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:06 PM   #101
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http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cfjs0405.pdf

That's the best I could find. Federal sentences for perjury, contempt, and intimidation median sentence was 24 months.

Scooters was above that by 6 months.
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:06 PM   #102
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Christopher Hitchens is a "prominent liberal writer."
He is right wing how?
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:07 PM   #103
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BVS, it was dialog from CNN. Newsbusters had the transcript. Are you ok with Dershowitz talking on CNN as a source for Dershowitz?
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:08 PM   #104
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Originally posted by MadelynIris
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cfjs0405.pdf

That's the best I could find. Federal sentences for perjury, contempt, and intimidation median sentence was 24 months.

Scooters was above that by 6 months.
Does that mean he should serve no time at all?
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:08 PM   #105
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Originally posted by anitram
So then what is the purpose of discussing Armitage here? What is the purpose of discussing Clinton?
Plenty of folks have connected Libby with spilling the beans on Plame. Why else would Plame's husband be a featured guest on the cable outlets last night? It wasn't Libby, it was Armitage, that's why his name was brought up.

As far as Clinton goes, I didn't post the long list of his pardons. He was the president, it was within his authority.
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