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Old 07-05-2007, 02:15 PM   #286
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it was a witch hunt, GW recognize that fact and didn't let Scooter off scot fre.

Once you ppl freely admit those facts you'll start feeling better about yourselves and stop being so miserable.

I doubt that some of you can, you prefer being angry and miserable over sane and productive.

It's that simple.

dbs
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:16 PM   #287
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diamond, do you acknowledge that Libby is lyring to protect Cheney's role in this? Do you acknowledge what Fitzgerald has said based on the information he has gathered to this point?
But unico, that would require him to stay on topic. And the only way to defend Bush on this issue is to stray from the topic.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:18 PM   #288
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Originally posted by diamond
it was a witch hunt, GW recognize that fact and didn't let Scooter off scot fre.

Once you ppl freely admit those facts you'll start feeling better about yourselves and stop being so miserable.

I doubt that some of you can, you prefer being angry and miserable over sane and productive.

It's that simple.

dbs
Well, I want to thank you for your first on topic post of the thread.

However, to reduce the government blatantly covering up a leak of classified information and the resulting investigation to a "witch hunt" is ridiculous.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:18 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
it was a witch hunt, GW recognize that fact and didn't let Scooter off scot fre.

Once you ppl freely admit those facts you'll start feeling better about yourselves and stop being so miserable.

I doubt that some of you can, you prefer being angry and miserable over sane and productive.

It's that simple.

dbs
How are those facts? Which part of Fitzgerald's statements are you basing that off of?

The real "witchhunt" is how Cheney outed Plame and endangered her family and our national security, all because Wilson decided to call the administration out on their flaws.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:22 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
it was a witch hunt,
You may want to look up what that term actually means...
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:41 PM   #291
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Okay, I'm getting tired of the personal attacks, and irrelevant issues brought up in here. I want a REAL discussion. Granted, I haven't been continously staying on this case from day one, when Plame was first outed. However, given what I've read so far, here is the UNOFFICIAL timeline of events.

Jan 2003 - President Bush said that Saddam Hussein obtained uranium from Africa

June 2003 - C. Rice lies on Russert's "Meet the Press" about who "knew" this information

July 2003 - Ambassador Wilson (Plame's husband) writes an op-ed in NYT calling out the administration

Then, as we all know, Plame's name is leaked. The current trial is investigating whether this administration ordered the leak to retaliate against Wilson and to prevent other people from coming forward as he did and calling them out. Bush admin. welcomed the case, and said that whoever was found responsible for leaking Plame would be fired.

Libby has lied in response to the key question here, who ordered the leak. Fitzgerald said that a cloud rests over Cheney. In what I've read, it is clear that Cheney is involved, and Libby is lying to protect that. I wouldn't be surprised if Bush is implicated too. But clearly Cheney. If the special prosecutor in this case says, based on his information gathered, that it is clear Cheney is involved, then why wouldn't that be plausible?

Bush orders Libby's commutation, thus A) allowing him to maintain his 5th amendment rights and B) allowing him to get away with, and continue to lie to protect their involvement. Thompson & Matalin have been pushing hard to raise money for his defense fund. Libby himself has not had to pay the $250,000 out of pocket.
Okay. There you go. It is a rough sketch, but I have laid it out. Hopefully we can move forward with this. If ANYBODY has anything to offer to support/critique this timeline, I am all ears. This is what I've read thus far. I'm up for a meaningful discussion with valid points rather than us spinning in circles with attacks and irrelevant topics.

diamond, you said "the left" have laid out their points for argument. THESE RIGHT HERE are my points.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:49 PM   #292
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You can add to that list

President Bush saying he welcomed the investigation.

And that anyone associated with it would be held accountable.


There are too many Republicans in and out of office that will tell you this Administration has been a complete failure on keeping his 2000 election pledge.

"I will restore honor and dignity to the Whitehouse."

with that pledge he set the standard.

With Gonzales and the Justice Department, and this episode he has done about the opposite.

He has set the lowest standard.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:53 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
You can add to that list

President Bush saying he welcomed the investigation.

And that anyone associated with it would be held accountable.


There are too many Republicans in and out of office that will tell you this Administration has been a complete failure on keeping his 2000 election pledge.

"I will restore honor and dignity to the Whitehouse."

with that pledge he set the standard.

With Gonzales and the Justice Department, and this episode he has done about the opposite.

He has set the lowest standard.
Very true. Bush's father said that outing a CIA officer is a crime years ago. Bush said that whoever is responsible for leaking Plame would be fired.

ETA: I added it
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:55 PM   #294
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Originally posted by unico


Very true. Bush's father said that outing a CIA officer is a crime years ago. Bush said that whoever is responsible for leaking Plame would be fired.
Of course, with a commutation, there's no speaking from Libby and no one can be identified.

Funny how transparent these things are...
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:58 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


Of course, with a commutation, there's no speaking from Libby and no one can be identified.

Funny how transparent these things are...
yeah...whoops...completely forgot to add the commute. i did just now though
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Old 07-05-2007, 03:24 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally posted by unico
Okay, I'm getting tired of the personal attacks, and irrelevant issues brought up in here. I want a REAL discussion. Granted, I haven't been continously staying on this case from day one, when Plame was first outed. However, given what I've read so far, here is the UNOFFICIAL timeline of events.

Jan 2003 - President Bush said that Saddam Hussein obtained uranium from Africa

June 2003 - C. Rice lies on Russert's "Meet the Press" about who "knew" this information

July 2003 - Ambassador Wilson (Plame's husband) writes an op-ed in NYT calling out the administration

Then, as we all know, Plame's name is leaked. The current trial is investigating whether this administration ordered the leak to retaliate against Wilson and to prevent other people from coming forward as he did and calling them out. Bush admin. welcomed the case, and said that whoever was found responsible for leaking Plame would be fired.

Libby has lied in response to the key question here, who ordered the leak. Fitzgerald said that a cloud rests over Cheney. In what I've read, it is clear that Cheney is involved, and Libby is lying to protect that. I wouldn't be surprised if Bush is implicated too. But clearly Cheney. If the special prosecutor in this case says, based on his information gathered, that it is clear Cheney is involved, then why wouldn't that be plausible?

Bush orders Libby's commutation, thus A) allowing him to maintain his 5th amendment rights and B) allowing him to get away with, and continue to lie to protect their involvement. Thompson & Matalin have been pushing hard to raise money for his defense fund. Libby himself has not had to pay the $250,000 out of pocket.
Okay. There you go. It is a rough sketch, but I have laid it out. Hopefully we can move forward with this. If ANYBODY has anything to offer to support/critique this timeline, I am all ears. This is what I've read thus far. I'm up for a meaningful discussion with valid points rather than us spinning in circles with attacks and irrelevant topics.

diamond, you said "the left" have laid out their points for argument. THESE RIGHT HERE are my points.

Well said. And with the adds by deep & phillyfan

Why are some people so blind to just read this without seeing "left" and "right"?
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Old 07-05-2007, 03:30 PM   #297
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thanks
i don't know, i really don't. i suppose it is easier to resort to personal attacks, generalizations, and irrelevant topics than to respond to these things that i have been posting since i started posting in this thread. for the most part, i've just neatly organized my claims into one post, and added deep & phillyfan's contributions.

and if anybody is curious about my sources, as i stated before, you can find all this on www.findlaw.com, a non-partisan web site for legal news.
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Old 07-05-2007, 03:30 PM   #298
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Originally posted by Lila64
Why are some people so blind to just read this without seeing "left" and "right"?
I guess saying "It's just liberals bashing Bush" is a classier way of saying "Nuh-uh, you're wrong."

Neither has any evidence, backing, or relevance to the debate.

The funny thing is that I'm not even liberal!
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Old 07-05-2007, 03:35 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

altho we could lose the swearing.

dbs
Agreed and my apologies. I'm just so angry at this bunch and at the issue in general; but it's no excuse I should have filtered a lot better.
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Old 07-05-2007, 03:37 PM   #300
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When all of you who are apparently "angry and miserable" quote diamond, those of us who have the good sense of having him on our Ignore lists unfortunately have to read the drivel. Like the aformentioned "you prefer to be angry and miserable" piece of dreck that he produced upthread.

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