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Old 07-04-2007, 05:35 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent Vega


And I thought my English wasn't that bad.
It was perfect, I think it's just him.
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:14 PM   #197
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IMPEACH BUSH!!!!
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:29 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent Vega


Want to discuss immigration? Fine, start a thread.

Pardoning and commuting itself is no corruption at all. Bringing up those figures doesn't prove anything, and don't make anyone corrupt. If it was corrupt per se, do you think a President would be allowed to pardon or commuting?

Bush was known to be very strict when he was Governor of Texas. He signed a tremendous amount of death sentences, and barely ever pardoned one.
As a President, that didn't change.
No one is more corrupt only because he pardoned orcommuted anyone.

And something else. Your arguing is basically: Clinton pardoned and commuted people, so it's not wrong if Bush commutes the sentence in this very case at all. That's just baseless. You cannot make anything right only because someone else did something similar, or something that in its core is the same.

If the pardoning or commuting in any of Clinton's cases was wrong, or corrupt, call him out on this. That is wrong then.

But that wouldn't change, in any case, that this time Bush committed this very mistake. It just doesn't make his action right.
Clinton is history, and you can't say: "If this President made a mistake there, the next has to be allowed to do the same himself." If one gets away with it, lucky him. If the other gets caught, his pity. It's as easy as that.
But before going on about Clinton you should take out an actual case and evaluate it on its own.

Nevertheless, it's not any topic here.
well, everyone keeps saying proof, arguments, etc. etc. That is a perfect argument. It might hurt the soul for a lot of people, but he is trying to pardon 12 million people currently, but there is no public uproar at that.

I can bring up the idea of Clinton, for presidence is what our country is built upon. If Clinton pardoned and commuted a lot of people, what do you think Hillary or Obama will do? How do you think Obama raised so much money last quarter? Well, yes, it was from corporations that have gotten the knack by Bush. So, the Democrats aren't this green, non-corrupt party. In many ways, they are more corrupt. I won't even go into Al Gore's corruption, because that would be too much to list. He of course has the nickname, the most corrupt man never elected president.

So, don't look at the Republicans as this corrupt party. Just because Cheney's camp and his few neo-cons might be, that doesn't necessarily mean that Bush is. There is a difference between a death sentence and someone who is wasting federal money sitting in jail for a petty offense.
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:36 PM   #199
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I wouldn't call this a petty offense

Hi U2Democrat - care to share

And VincentVega - you English is perfectly fine

Jesse - I couldn't agree more
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:38 PM   #200
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Gore should have been impeached
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:40 PM   #201
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That's again way besides what I've written there, as well as lots of assumptions you can't have read out of that comment.

We aren't looking at the Democrats, nor Clinton, nor the Republicans.

We are looking at the commuting of the sentence of Scooter Libby by Bush, which is highly controversial, and hardly justified yet.
That case, you have to evaluate. Nothing else.
If you ever became a juror, you couldn't argue the case at hand with other things that are very, very lightly connected. Some things here have no connection at all.
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:42 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent Vega
That's again way besides what I've written there, as well as lots of assumptions you can't have read out of that comment.

We aren't looking at the Democrats, nor Clinton, nor the Republicans.

We are looking at the commuting of the sentence of Scooter Libby by Bush, which is highly controversial, and hardly justified yet.
That case, you have to evaluate. Nothing else.
If you ever became a juror, you couldn't argue the case at hand with other things that are very, very lightly connected. Some things here have no connection at all.
Yes, but you would be presented w/ evidence based on presedent.

And it is a big deal. You made the comparison to other people's sentences jail time. Well, then with the statement above, we shouldn't mention that as well, b/c we can't argue that b/c every case is different.
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:46 PM   #203
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and logic like that, or lack thereof struckpx is what usually keeps me out of FYM

Watch Olberman's video or read the transcript.

I'm out
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:50 PM   #204
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Originally posted by Lila64
and logic like that, or lack thereof struckpx is what usually keeps me out of FYM

Watch Olberman's video or read the transcript.

I'm out
well, the impeach Bush isn't showing much either.

it would be appropriate if it was cheney, but bush has not been that bad.
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:55 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx

he is trying to pardon 12 million people currently, but there is no public uproar at that.
Please tell me how you managed to type that with a straight face.

There is no public uproar? Except Lou Dobbs on TV every day, the Minutemen at the border and so many people calling their Congressmen and Senators that the Bill can't even get passed.
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Old 07-04-2007, 07:00 PM   #206
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I can't find where I compared sentences.

However, in similar cases, like perjury and perjury, you can take a look at how the judges differ in the length they sent the person to jail. However, sentence X doesn't define sentence Y, as both cases are not 100 per cent the same.
For example, Libby is, or was, a lawyer himself. So he should have known what he was doing when he lied better than a person that isn't of that profession.
He then was a high-ranking official in your country's government, so his responsibility is by far greater than another persons.
He also got sentenced for obstruction (of evidence if I'm right). So it makes perjury and obstruction.
And then there is the judge, who has some leeway in how long he send a person to jail.

You can try and find a similar case, and examine whether the sentence here was too harsh or not. But it doesn't mean in any way that this is too harsh, only because he got a few months more. As long as the judge is following the guidelines, the sentence is justified.

So, what Bush, or his successor, could have done was commuting or pardoning Libby after, say, sixty per cent of the time the judge ruled out. Some would have protested, but overall you could argue that the original sentence was harsh and he served his time in a good manner, or whatever.

But to let him get off the jail before he even set one foot into the jail clearly shows favoritism. Every ordinary person would have at least spent some months in prison for this crime.
And it's by definition no minor crime, such as speeding.
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Old 07-04-2007, 07:24 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


well, the impeach Bush isn't showing much either.

it would be appropriate if it was cheney, but bush has not been that bad.
Why should Cheney be impeached, struck?
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Old 07-04-2007, 07:56 PM   #208
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All arguments about Clinton or immigration are 100%, completly irrelevant.

Some people have forgotten the issue. Allow me to sum up:

The issue is whether President Bush is covering up anything by COMMUTING Scooter Libby. This means Libby does not have to serve the 2.5 year prison sentence which the judge gave him, which is in the law for perjury. Prison terms are required for perjury. Also, he retains his fifth amendment rights, unlike if he was pardoned. There is much suspicion of him covering the tracks of VP Cheney.

Discuss that.
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Old 07-04-2007, 08:50 PM   #209
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
All arguments about Clinton or immigration are 100%, completly irrelevant.

Some people have forgotten the issue. Allow me to sum up:

The issue is whether President Bush is covering up anything by COMMUTING Scooter Libby. This means Libby does not have to serve the 2.5 year prison sentence which the judge gave him, which is in the law for perjury. Prison terms are required for perjury. Also, he retains his fifth amendment rights, unlike if he was pardoned. There is much suspicion of him covering the tracks of VP Cheney.

Discuss that.
Come on:

Any president would have done this if they were put in the same situation, regardless of political party affiliation.

It is still on appeal, therefore we can not debate the finality of his tenure in jail.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:15 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx

It is still on appeal, therefore we can not debate the finality of his tenure in jail.
???
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