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Old 07-04-2007, 03:20 PM   #151
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From the L.A. Times today

Libby's sentence not unusually long

Though Bush calls the 30-month prison term 'excessive,' records show defendants convicted of similar crimes served jail time.
By Richard B. Schmitt and David G. Savage, Times Staff Writers
July 4, 2007


WASHINGTON — In commuting the sentence of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, President Bush said that the former vice presidential aide had suffered enough and that the 30-month prison term ordered up by a federal judge was "excessive."

But records show that the Justice Department under the Bush administration frequently has sought sentences that are as long, or longer, in cases similar to Libby's. Three-fourths of the 198 defendants sentenced in federal court last year for obstruction of justice — one of four crimes Libby was found guilty of in March — got some prison time. According to federal data, the average sentence defendants received for that charge alone was 70 months.

Just last week, the Supreme Court upheld a 33-month prison sentence for a decorated Army veteran who was convicted of lying to a federal agent about buying a machine gun. The veteran had a record of public service — fighting in Vietnam and the Gulf War — and no criminal record. But Justice Department lawyers argued his prison term should stand because it fit within the federal sentencing guidelines.

That Bush chose to make an exception for a political ally is galling to many career Justice Department prosecutors and other legal experts. Federal prosecutors said Tuesday the action would make it harder for them to persuade judges to deliver appropriate sentences.

The critics included some Republicans who said Bush's decision did not square with an administration that had been ardently pro law-and-order. "It denigrates the significance of perjury prosecutions," John S. Martin Jr., a former U.S. attorney and federal judge in New York, said of the commutation.

On Tuesday, Bush, speaking to reporters after visiting with wounded military personnel at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, refused to rule out the possibility that he might later grant Libby a full pardon. That would wipe out the felony conviction and allow Libby to retain his law license.

"As to the future, I rule nothing in or nothing out," Bush said — his first public comments on the case since announcing the commutation late Monday.

Sentencing experts said Bush's action appeared to be without recent precedent. They could not recall another case in which someone sentenced to prison had received a presidential commutation without having served any part of that sentence. Presidents have customarily commuted sentences only when someone has served substantial time.

"We can't find any cases, certainly in the last half century, where the president commuted a sentence before it had even started to be served," said Margaret Colgate Love, a former pardon attorney at the Justice Department. "This is really, really unusual."

Said Ellen S. Podgor, a professor at Stetson University law school: "This is a classic case of executive activism as opposed to judicial activism."


rest of article: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...adlines-nation
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Old 07-04-2007, 03:21 PM   #152
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I'm too lazy to search through the pages of the thread...but did anyone catch Keith Olbermann's Special Comment last night? Very good.
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Old 07-04-2007, 03:21 PM   #153
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argument: Bush is currently working on pardoning 12 million people here.
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Old 07-04-2007, 03:24 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx
why do you not quote my whole statements. stop putting little sentences of it and read the whole thing, thank you.
Ok, even with the rest of the comment there, what does that mean?
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Old 07-04-2007, 03:25 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Ok, even with the rest of the comment there, what does that mean?
that we are making a big deal over are a commutal, yet he is trying to pardon 12 million people and that is not garnering anyone's attention?
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Old 07-04-2007, 03:28 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


that we are making a big deal over are a commutal, yet he is trying to pardon 12 million people and that is not garnering anyone's attention?
Because they're hypocrites?

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Old 07-04-2007, 03:29 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


that we are making a big deal over are a commutal, yet he is trying to pardon 12 million people and that is not garnering anyone's attention?
I don't think there are small things when it comes to right and wrong.

Ok, I'll bite, what 12 million are you talking about?
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Old 07-04-2007, 03:35 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Ok, I'll bite, what 12 million are you talking about?
If I had to venture a guess, he's referring to 12 million illegal immigrants regarding "immigration reform."
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Old 07-04-2007, 03:38 PM   #159
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If I had to venture a guess, he's referring to 12 million illegal immigrants regarding "immigration reform."
Ok, I gotcha.

to the comparison...
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Old 07-04-2007, 03:47 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Ok, I gotcha.

to the comparison...
roll your eyes, but a great argument none the less
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Old 07-04-2007, 03:48 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


roll your eyes, but a great argument none the less
Sure one's perjury and the other is someone who want to provide better for their children.
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Old 07-04-2007, 03:50 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Sure one's perjury and the other is someone who want to provide better for their children.
its the bigger idea. lets get off the personal attacks. clinton used his commuter privileges 4 or 5 times.
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Old 07-04-2007, 03:57 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


its the bigger idea. lets get off the personal attacks. clinton used his commuter privileges 4 or 5 times.
Where's a personal attack?

I'm done, you aren't making sense.
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Old 07-04-2007, 03:59 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Where's a personal attack?

I'm done, you aren't making sense.
i wasn't referring to you.
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Old 07-04-2007, 04:04 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


roll your eyes, but a great argument none the less
??

The one is a political cover-up, the over one is an economical issue with no crime included.

Pardoning X, and commuting the sentence of Y is not the same, was not the same and never will be the same. Doesn't matter what figure you put before.
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