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Old 02-23-2005, 01:46 PM   #16
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bush is fucking up this country one day at a time. trust the guy? does anybody trust him? privatize soc security... it's official, the guy is a chauvanist. poverty is his idea of capitalism.
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Old 02-23-2005, 02:39 PM   #17
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LOL at people trusting the President of the United States of America anymore... I stopped trusting the word of a President since Bill Clinton... scratch that... maybe George H. W. Bush... but at the time of Elder Bush, I didn't give a shit so it would probably be since Clinton.
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Old 02-23-2005, 05:57 PM   #18
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Wanderer, I appreciate your perspective on things and you are well-informed. However, we have to live with the guy day in and day out. You get the luxury of being theoretical about the administration. We don't. Unfortunately when Bush acts, he does so in my name too. America has changed under his direct and indirect "leadership" in a way that makes me very uncomfortable. He may be providing the America you want. He is not providing the America I want.
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Old 02-24-2005, 12:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
Bush Backs Out of Unscripted
Town Hall Meeting

"During his trip to Germany on Wednesday, the main highlight of George W. Bush's trip was meant to be a town hall-style meeting with average Germans," Der Spiegel reports. "But with the German government unwilling to permit a scripted event with questions approved in advance, the White House has quietly put the event on ice."
Is this the most gutless President ever?
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Old 02-24-2005, 12:36 PM   #20
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I wonder how Fox will report that..

I heard the real reason he backed out was they wanted him to wear lederhosen
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Old 02-24-2005, 12:56 PM   #21
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ehm. i don`t know much about the privatizing social security but how can people expect that it will turn out good especial there are 45 million Americans that not even can pay there medical aid ensurance
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Old 02-28-2005, 12:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Blacks Courted on Social Security
Private accounts would be more useful because of a life expectancy gap, Republicans say.
Government statistics show that the average lifespan for a newborn black male is 69, compared with 75 for a newborn white male.
"Now if we could just get those Negroes to die at 59, our argument would be even stronger" Bush Administration official


Quote:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-social28feb28,1,2664257.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true
THE NATION
Blacks Courted on Social Security
Private accounts would be more useful because of a life expectancy gap, Republicans say.
By Peter Wallsten and Tom Hamburger
Times Staff Writers

February 28, 2005

WASHINGTON — The White House and its allies who back overhauling Social Security are launching a highly targeted campaign to convince blacks that President Bush's plan to create private investment accounts would have special benefits for them.

The most provocative element of the GOP message to blacks: Their shorter life expectancy means that Social Security is not a favorable deal for them, a point contested by Bush's critics. The president's plan for private accounts, say Republicans, would particularly benefit blacks by allowing them to build wealth more rapidly and pass a portion of their Social Security contributions to their heirs.

In reaching out to blacks on Bush's top domestic priority, Republicans are courting a traditionally Democratic voting bloc, which could further pressure Democratic lawmakers to back the president's plan.

Some Republican strategists also believe the effort illustrates how Bush can reap political rewards from the Social Security issue even if he fails to win passage of his plan in Congress. These strategists believe that Bush's call for private accounts, and his broader claim to be building an "ownership society," have special appeal for black voters, many of whom live in economically troubled neighborhoods and have not been able to build their own savings.

The message that African Americans do not fare well in the Social Security system infuriates congressional Democrats, who cite government statistics showing that blacks benefit disproportionately from the current system and stand to lose the most from the proposed changes.

Nonetheless, in the coming weeks, Bush's Social Security plan will be featured in a variety of GOP outreach efforts to blacks. White House officials will brief black business leaders on Bush's plan, and the Republican Party chairman will address African American audiences. Black activists backing Bush will hold regional forums to sell the plan, and two new conservative black coalitions will promote private Social Security accounts as part of an agenda to foster economic empowerment.

Under Bush's plan, workers younger than 55 could divert a portion of their Social Security taxes to privately owned stock and bond accounts, rather than pay it to the government-run retirement program. Critics argue that the government would have to borrow $1 trillion or more to cover the costs of the accounts, which would be unwelcome at a time of high deficits. They also say the plan, while expensive, would do nothing to address the long-term financial problem facing Social Security.

The efforts to gain support for the plan in black communities focus in part on arguments that blacks are disadvantaged by the current system, largely because of shorter life expectancies — a highly controversial argument that has drawn objections from opponents of private accounts.

Government statistics show that the average lifespan for a newborn black male is 69, compared with 75 for a newborn white male. But critics of that argument say the six-year advantage that white males hold over blacks in lifespan is due to the higher infant mortality rates in black communities, as well as to the higher rates of violent crime, which affect black children and young adults more than whites. These people are dying before they ever pay into the Social Security system.

Life expectancies are closer when comparing adults. A 65-year-old white man is expected to live two years longer than a black man of the same age, according to government statistics.
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Old 02-28-2005, 12:45 PM   #23
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Originally posted by Rono
ehm. i don`t know much about the privatizing social security but how can people expect that it will turn out good especial there are 45 million Americans that not even can pay there medical aid ensurance
I think you mean "during one calendar year, a total of 45 million Americans found themselves without health insurance at some point."

BIG difference.
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Old 02-28-2005, 12:51 PM   #24
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and the next calendar year it would be 48 million?
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Old 02-28-2005, 12:54 PM   #25
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Originally posted by deep
and the next calendar year it would be 48 million?
Most of them lost their health insurance because they left their jobs.
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:07 PM   #26
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left their jobs
or lost their jobs


depends which way the spin blows
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer


I think you mean "during one calendar year, a total of 45 million Americans found themselves without health insurance at some point."

BIG difference.
So tell me, what is the exact figure ? i guess we can count the 14% of the Americans who a living under the poverty line to the people without medical aid insurance ( that is more than 20 milion )

I have those numbers from the dutch media.
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Old 03-01-2005, 05:43 AM   #28
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Daily Show" host Jon Stewart offered this amusing take on President Bush's rationale for privatizing Social Security:

"What President Bush wants to do is create private investment accounts so people can take control of their savings by investing in stocks and bonds. Why privatize? [Clip of Bush: "Your money will be able to get a better rate of return than the money inside the Social Security trust."] That sounds great. It's part of a larger philosophy that Bush explained to the Stump family on one of his presidential campaign stops. [Clip of Bush: "I always say, and I believe this firmly, that the Stumps can spend their money far better than the federal government can."]

"That is so refreshing. What the president is saying is, 'Hey, I'm the head of the federal government and I can't be trusted with your money. I'm running trillion dollar deficits. I don't know shit about shit.' In fact, the president is so confident in his own incompetence, he'd like to privatize the entire federal bureaucracy: the military, why not let people direct their own air traffic, inspect their own meat....My point is this: Kudos to President Bush for saying to America: We need to save Social Security — from him."

http://www.comedycentral.com/mp/play...jon_10025.html
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Old 03-01-2005, 06:42 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rono
So tell me, what is the exact figure ? i guess we can count the 14% of the Americans who a living under the poverty line to the people without medical aid insurance ( that is more than 20 milion )

I have those numbers from the dutch media.
The survey that I think you're quoting showed that during one calendar year, 45 million Americans were without health insurance at some point. (Actually, it might have been "uninsured" or "under-insured", I'm not sure which.) It didn't necessarily say anything about people not being able to afford insurance. I'm sure a good number of those people couldn't find affordable health insurance, but that's a poverty problem, not necessarily an insurance problem, as you pointed out.

The bottom line -- I find it hard to get worked up about health insurance, Social Security, tax policy, etc. At the end of the day, it's about dollars and cents, or wealth distribution. I understand that some measure of wealth redistribution is a practical necessity in our society, but I don't really perceive it as a moral problem on the scale that a lot of people do.

No matter how you try to spread around the cost of health care, saving for retirement, or whatever, we end up paying for it ourselves -- whether it be through taxes, insurance, or out of our own pockets.
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