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Old 08-10-2003, 10:30 AM   #1
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Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Woolfowitz were warned

about the war we are stillfighting in Iraq. Yet according ot this article, they still went out and publicly made predictions opposite what the CIA told them.

[Q]ASHINGTON - In February, the CIA gave a formal briefing to the National Security Council, including Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, Vice President Dick Cheney, and President Bush himself: ''A quick military victory in Iraq will likely be followed by armed resistance from remnants of the Ba'ath Party and Fedayeen Saddam irregulars.'' [/Q]

and then we have the Vice President:

[Q]''My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators,'' Cheney said on NBC's ''Meet the Press'' on March 16. ''I've talked with a lot of Iraqis in the last several months myself, had them to the White House.''[/Q]

and Mr. Wolfowitz:

[Q]''I imagine they will be welcomed,'' Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz, a key architect of the White House's Iraq strategy, said in an interview April 3, two weeks into the war, with CBS's ''60 Minutes II.''

''I think there's every reason to think that huge numbers of the Iraqi population are going to welcome these people ... provided we don't overstay our welcome, provided we mean what we say about handing things back over to the Iraqis,'' Wolfowitz said.[/Q]

According to the article the CIA during multiple occasions told the administration that this Gorilla War was going to go on long after the "WAR" phase and that it would hinder the rebuilding efforts.

Wolfowitz said since said this:

[Q]''There's been a lot of talk that there was no plan,'' he said. ''There was a plan, but as any military officer can tell you, no plan survives first contact with reality. Inevitably, some of our assumptions turned out to be wrong.''

Wolfowitz acknowledged that the administration had expected Iraqi military units to defect. ''No army units, at least none of any significant size, came over to our side so that we could use them as Iraqi forces with us today,'' he said. ''Second, the police turned out to require a massive overhaul. Third, and worst of all, it was difficult to imagine before the war that the criminal gang of sadists and gangsters who have run Iraq for 35 years would continue fighting.''[/Q]



How can it be difficult to immagine when your own CIA officiers presented information that said:

[Q]Yet the CIA in particular forewarned policymakers of some of the problems likely to arise, according to one intelligence official who asked not to be identified. The reports, for example, predicted that armed insurgents would attack coalition forces. One prewar report, he said, forecast that after the war ''things would get worse before they get better'' and that there would be a high likelihood of ''backsliding'' - progress followed by setbacks.

In the early days of the war, the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon's internal spy agency, warned that Ba'ath Party loyalists - many of whom escaped the major invasion - were showing signs of regrouping, said an intelligence official who asked not to be identified. ''We wrote in early April that we were picking up hints of guerrilla forces gearing up,'' the official said. [/Q]

These people seem more and more like they have their VISION and they ignore anything presented that conflicted with what they wished to do.



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Old 08-10-2003, 12:01 PM   #2
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"These people seem more and more like they have their VISION and they ignore anything presented that conflicted with what they wished to do. "

Exactly!
Today the former Foreign Policy Chairman - Nunn and the Current Chairman on Meet the Press both said the Admins. plan was wrong.
Nunn called it Alacarte intelligence - Only picking the pieces that match the predesired notions. We were sold a bill of goods all built on distortions and lies.
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Old 08-10-2003, 12:17 PM   #3
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Re: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Woolfowitz were warned

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
These people seem more and more like they have their VISION and they ignore anything presented that conflicted with what they wished to do.


This administration has come across this way on a number of issues, which is why you have people across the world increasingly irritated with the USA as a whole, whether that is fair or not.

It's like these men have an idea of what they want and they're going ahead with it, consequences be damned. Why do you think they are perceived as arrogant? Because they do things like this.
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Old 08-10-2003, 03:16 PM   #4
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This burns me up. What arrogance!
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Old 08-10-2003, 09:30 PM   #5
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I smell conspiracy! What kind of conspiracy, I don't know. I'm just very sure that one exists!
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Old 08-10-2003, 09:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolfwill23
I smell conspiracy! What kind of conspiracy, I don't know. I'm just very sure that one exists!
It's only a conspiracy if a Republican is in the spotlight otherwise it's an independant investigation.
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Old 08-10-2003, 10:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolfwill23
I smell conspiracy! What kind of conspiracy, I don't know. I'm just very sure that one exists!
Wolf,

I did not post it to be a conspiracy. A conspiracy would be involved in a cover-up. This is yet another example of the administration ignoring the intelligence community and their advice. It is a troubling pattern. Why are we paying intelligence services if the administration is going to SAY and DO things in spite of their advice?

Peace
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Old 08-11-2003, 01:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolfwill23
I smell conspiracy! What kind of conspiracy, I don't know. I'm just very sure that one exists!
It isn't even a conspiracy, it is just normal foreing policy from the 60ties.
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Old 08-11-2003, 09:05 PM   #9
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I've read that one of the biggest problems with this administration is that they don't take evidence and then decide what they are going to do, but decide what they are going to do, then search for evidence to support it. Rumsfeld has a whole team of people ('Office of Special Projects' or something) set up just to do that.

There was a really good article in my weekend paper on it last weekend (and the B.S/Spin in the war in general), I'll try and track it down....
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Old 08-11-2003, 09:21 PM   #10
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Cheney has his own national security advisors that push his and Rumsfeld's agenda. This is unprecedented for a Vice President.
This is why Colin Powell and the State Department are undermined.
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Old 08-11-2003, 10:02 PM   #11
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Re: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Woolfowitz were warned

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
These people seem more and more like they have their VISION and they ignore anything presented that conflicted with what they wished to do.
Of course they do. It has been blatantly obvious ever since Dubya got into office. It is my view that 9/11 was the perfect event for them to accelerate their pre-defined agenda.

Melon
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Old 08-11-2003, 11:08 PM   #12
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Re: Re: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Woolfowitz were warned

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Originally posted by melon


Of course they do. It has been blatantly obvious ever since Dubya got into office. It is my view that 9/11 was the perfect event for them to accelerate their pre-defined agenda.

Melon
im more afraid of what homeland security will look like after another terrorist attack than of an attack itself. i know attacks are horrible, but chances are, if im american, ill more likely be directly effected by the "security" imposed afterwards.

big brother indeed.
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Old 08-13-2003, 04:49 AM   #13
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Re: Re: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Woolfowitz were warned

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Originally posted by melon


Of course they do. It has been blatantly obvious ever since Dubya got into office. It is my view that 9/11 was the perfect event for them to accelerate their pre-defined agenda.

Melon
Yep. That famous, much publicised Wolfowitz/Cheney/Rumsfeld document from the early 90's (the one that first pushed striking Iraq) had a part in it that said that their whole grand plan for the world could take a couple of decades, unless there was a Pearl Harbour type event, in which case it could be pushed through fairly quickly. The whole document would be fairly easy to find online, I've found it a few times before, it's quite a read.
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Old 08-13-2003, 10:13 AM   #14
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Re: Re: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Woolfowitz were warned

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Originally posted by melon


Of course they do. It has been blatantly obvious ever since Dubya got into office. It is my view that 9/11 was the perfect event for them to accelerate their pre-defined agenda.

Melon
The only problem I have with this Melon is that this President campained hard that we were being stretched too thin around the world troop wise. That was one of the themes of his campain that resonated with me. It is almost as if he stopped listening to one set of advisors over another.

In "Bush at War" he, the President, does not seem to want anything to do with Iraq, while Rumsfeld clearly within hours wanted to go in. Something changed int he White House. I wonder if they felt improving Homeland Security was not tangible enough to show the American peope that progress was being made.
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Old 08-13-2003, 09:32 PM   #15
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I think Bush just probably had Rumsfeld/Cheney/Wolfowitz etc in one ear and Powell in the other for a long time, and the Rumsfeld team won.

Iraq was about a bigger picture. They were also trying to settle the argument of UN as World Government vs US as World Governor (even Kofi Annan has taken a softer line on what the UN's role in the world is since Iraq) and with the fights with France & Germany, succesfully putting a wedge into Europe. These guys think of a strong, united successful EU as a threat to the US' position at #1, and that's not on.

I still believe that the whole point with Iraq wasn't about WMD/Humanitarian/911/Terrorism etc or even Oil (by itself) or even Iraq (they were just the perfect target at the perfect time), I think it was the big post-Cold War pissing contest to set up the 'world order' for the immediate future, and the US was just letting it be known that it's:
1. US
2. Daylight
3. The Rest

Remember with all of these kinds of things, with a few decades hindsight we don't learn so much about the details of the events, but what they meant, and I think these guys are well aware of their 'bigger picture'.


Another little thing, I was in a taxi yesterday, the driver was an Iraqi refugee who has lived in Australia for the past decade. His English wasn't that great (but he did start and finish every single sentence with 'Fucking' which was fantastic). He said he was very dissappointed in Australia. I asked why, and he said he loved this country when he first got here, up until about 2 years ago, now he wishes he had gone to Europe. He said "Fucking 'standard of living' has dropped lots in this country recently fucking". I pointed out that we had the 3rd or 4th highest in the world, ahead of the US, Canada and most of Europe, but he said "Fucking not true fucking". He then went on to tell me that the rest of the world was finished with war. Most of Europe, most of Asia, Canada, even the Middle East, Afica, Sth America. Countries do not go to war anymore. It is a barbaric thing of the past. He said it was so sad the the US, UK and Australia still wanted to go to war when everyone else had given it up.

The news was on the radio, and a big story here has been an audio tape threat made to Australia (and the US) by and Al Queda guy (in relation to that hotel bombing in Indonesia last week). He only named the US and Australia. "Fucking why not France, Germany, Sweden, Canada, Japan, Finland, New Zealand, Brazil, Italy, Spain fucking!"
"Fucking only US, Australia, UK and Israel."
"Only fucking they want to have war. All these other countries do not. They are left alone fucking. They have fucking grown up. Get about business. Not in dark ages anymore."

Not the greatest logic, but it was hard to argue with him.
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