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Old 04-21-2002, 11:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome:
Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama:
That being said, Arafat hasn't exactly been waving olive branches lately. He needs to do more to control the actions of Hamas, Hezbollah, and al Jihad.
very true
still I can't think of many moments in history where killing people led to peace
I fear that recent actions will only lead to more extremist behaviour in the future

Salome-
Pssst..
Can you say
"Hiroshima"?

Please dont construe this as a favorable solution to the mess we're watching now.

Out-
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Old 04-21-2002, 05:27 PM   #17
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So the US was saying that Iraq is a threat to its neighbours so they had impose their sanctions. Now that Iraq has made up with fellow arabs and the Saudis; The US doesn't like it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you kidding ???? What the fuck are you smoking???? Who invaded Kuwait in 1990???
Fucking Please

----

who invaded kuwait? i believe it was iraq. but thats where the media fell short.

did you or did you not know that kuwait was in fact stealing oil from iraq? now you can check on this, but i believe this to be fact, that they in fact were slant drilling (similiar in context to that episode of the simpsons where burns slant drills from the school and steals their oil). gee, wonder if the us and their rock and roll triggers would do the same thing?

did you or did you not hear about the claim the kuwait people made about "iraq soldiers storming everywhere, even hospitals and killing children?"

that was a clever way to get sympathy from the powerful americans and a clever bit of propaganda to get them on side.

after the war was over, kuwait admitted that those accusations were false. they lied. unforunately the media in the us made about as much of an attempt to cover that issue as they have this past week when canadian soldiers were killed by american bombs in afghanistan. does this make world news tonite? errr...

when exactly did bush even apologize? a few days later??? uh... yikes....

all the focus is put on maintaining support for this "war" which has killed over 5000 innocent afghan civilians. how many were killed in america in 9/11? even if you were to go an eye for an eye, it wouldnt add up.

now in closing, saddam is a complete idiot. i have no use for him, i am not defending him, but rather his people that are living in atrocious conditions because of himself AND sanctions.

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Old 04-21-2002, 11:33 PM   #18
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something of a test
Quote:

They are doing it so their family can get a whopping $25,ooo
Palestinian suicide bombers blow themselves to do as much damage as they can to Israel who has a superior army. Terrorists act certainly but thats not the debate.
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Old 04-22-2002, 12:22 AM   #19
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And they have been throwing us "bones" every since. In 1994, they amassed 75% of their troops on the Kuwaiti border again. I know, I had to fly over there for that.

I would not believe a single thing they say, their desire is not to "trust anyone nation's sovreignity"
Does the US "trust any nation's sovreignity"? Especially one who steals their oil.



Iraq doesn't trust the US that doesn't mean it has the right to attack the US does it.

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Quote:
September 11, 2001
I don't know what you mean here so I can't comment.

No weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq.
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Quote:
Now I'm laughing pretty hard
Ok let me give you the benefit of the doubt. So far I have honestly never heard of any findings of WMD in Iraq. I've only heard that they would remove them before the UN inspectors arrived. Where can I verify them finding these WMD?
What kind of weapons were they, and where were they made?

The US has the most Weapons of Mass Destruction in the world. The US has enough weapons to destroy the whole world. The US is the only country in the world to use Nuclear weapons. These weapons were used on a civilain population. The US has more biological weapons than all other countries combined. One might say its dangerous for all countries to have WMD but the same logic can be applied to gun rights in the US.


Quote:
I'm not sure what your point is here other than to sympathize with Iraq, make the USA look like the great satan, show your opinions as if they were facts.


You remind me of John Walker Lindh.
Which of my opinions above are not fact?


Quote:
LOL
DO you even consider the fact that there are missing weapons such as the "suitcase nukes" that can do considerable damage when they are used, and I believe they will if not recovered.
What does this have to do with Iraq? Does Iraq have these missing "suitcase nukes"?


There hasn't been any connection found between Iraq and 9/11. It almost seems as if the US wants for there to be a connection.


Quote:
Laughing even harder now
Ok once again pardon my ignorance. I have an open mind. What connection does Iraq have to 9/11 and where can I get information on this?



A war against Iraq now doesn't have a thing to do with the war on terrorism.


Quote:
They say ignorance is bliss, I say funny too
Ok I'm ignorant. Educate me. What terrorists acts have Iraq carried out? What terrorists acts have the US carried out, and what do you think we should do about them both?


That 'ELECT' thing was not mine.

Quote:
Ha Ha,
Sounds like a Gore loser, I mean sore loser.
Didn't vote for Gore. Didn't vote for Bush. Maybe it was because they seemed like one candidate to me. Or maybe its because I'm not a US citizen. Who Knows.

On a side note. I've been able to pick the winner of the US elections from Reagan up to W. Bush. The one on TV the most always wins.
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Old 04-22-2002, 01:10 AM   #20
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nintendan, shouldn't you have been in DC this weekend?
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Old 04-22-2002, 02:14 AM   #21
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Zoomerang96,
The Iraqi's never showed anything to prove that an Oil well near the border with Iraq in Kuwait was involved in slant drilling, even after they invaded and annexed the country. It would have been easy enough to take the Oil Well near the border and show the world what they were talking about, but that was never their interest in the first place. The Oil Well dispute was simply used as cover for their attack and take over of Kuwait. They would have made up anything to justify what they did. Just like Hitler did when he invaded Poland in Sept 1939.
While certain stories by Kuwaities might of turned out to be false, they were many things that happened to Kuwaiti civilians and nearly 10,000 are still unaccounted for 11 years after the invasion of Kuwait. Many were taken to Iraq following the start during the ground phase of the Gulf War, as Iraqi soldiers began to retreat from Kuwait. I find it strange that you would attempt to defend Iraq by using their trumped up claims against Kuwait. While one story of the Rape and destruction of Kuwait may not of been true, there are thousands of others that are. The country was totaly ruined by Saddam Hussian's forces.

The war on Terrorism has freed the Afghan people of Taliban control. For the first time in 20 years, people there can have hope. The Taliban refused to turn over Al-quada and UBL. The USA and are Allies were totally justified in bringing down the Taliban government for their hiding and support of Al Quada. They are just as guilty of 9/11. There is no reliable figures on civilian causualties, and the figure of 5,000 civilians killed by US bombing is simply an estimate by Arab, or Anti-War groups. A war was all ready in process when 9/11 happened between Taliban and N. Alliance and it is difficult to distinguish where and when causalties occured and from what. Often Taliban Anti-Air Craft shells would fall to the ground in cities having not hit a target in the air, causing damage on the ground. Over 80% of the ordenance dropped on Afghanistan were precision guided munitions. Most of the major bombing and fighting took place outside of cities and away from the population in the hills.
The US military does not target civilians unlike Al-quada, Taliban, Palestinians and others. Any civilian loss of life in Afghanistan as a result of US bombs dropped is an accident. Unless civilians were living with Al-quada in the mountains or in the front lines with the Taliban, civilian loss of life from US bombing was low.
Poor conditions in Iraq are created by Saddam Hussain for his propaganda purposes of lifting sanctions. Saddam wants sanctions lifted so he can use his oil revenue to rebuild his military. Right now the UN moniters what the Oil revenue can be used to buy. Iraq can sell as much oil as they want for humanitarian supplies. In fact, last year the value of Iraqi Exports was $21,800,000,000! Thats more than double the Iraqi Export figure for 1989 when there were no sanctions.
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Old 04-22-2002, 02:40 AM   #22
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The Palestinians use of suicide bombers has nothing to do with Israel having a superior army. First, the target of the suicide bombers is not the Israely army, but kids at a disco or club, perhaps listening to U2. Or at a Passover supper having dinner. Most suicide bombers avoid police or military targets. Don't tell me your going to call that legit self defense. What do the kids at the Disco have to with the West Bank or Gaza? This is the targeting and senseless slaughter of Israely civilians and does nothing to defend or support the cause for a Palestinian state. Their driven to do that, I think not. Over a BILLION people around the world live in worst conditions than the Palestinians, but they don't strap bombs to themselves and blow people up! The infrastructure of terror on the west bank supports, directs, equips, exploits and uses brain washed childern to commit their useless acts of terror.
Israel acted in self-defense by going into the west bank to capture and kill the terrorist that the PLA had either been unable to stop or were actually apart of. If the IDF were terrorist, everyone in the West Bank would have been dead decades ago.
There will only be peace in Israel and Palestine when the Palestinians realize that their terrorist actions prevent them from ever having a state of their own. It is only successful in bringing IDF troops into the West Bank. Israel has a state and a powerful military that is impossible to stop. Only through non-violent action and US support will the Palestinians ever be able to have a state. Of course the Palestinians first have to learn what non-violence is, since the destruction of Israel, and ill concieved strategies to accomplish that, have been their only goal since 1948.
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Old 04-22-2002, 03:23 AM   #23
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Anthony,
The British have as much interest as the USA with the war on terrorism. The UK is just as much a target of terror as the USA is. As far as an attack on Iraq, this would certainly be legal sense the Gulf War has technically not ended due to the failure of Iraq to meet the agreed upon terms of the Cease-fire for that war.
It is unknown currently what WMD materials Iraq has currently. What is known is that Iraq had one of the largest WMD operations in the world, based on what was found by the UN inspectors before they were forced out in 1998. Saddam Hussians behavior combined with WMD is what makes the problem so frightening. Saddam since taking control of Iraq in 1979 murdered political opposition in the government. Invaded Iran in 1980 and fought a long war with them from 1980-1988. Used Chemical weapons on the Kurds and Iranian soldiers in 1986. Attacked a US warship in 1987 called the Stark in the Gulf.(Ok that was supposedly and accident, but I have my suspicions.) Invaded and terrorized and destroyed much of Kuwait in 1990-1991. Murders even members of his own military in addition to any Iraqi civilian. Starves his people when he could feed and support them, to create the illusion that sanctions and the UN are killing Iraqi people. Stalled and interfered with the UN inspectors on a constant basis to prevent them from finding and destroying key WMD material. Financialy supports Palestinian terrorism.
His above behavior and WMD is a recipe for disaster. The fear is that if Al-quada or another terror group have not hooked up with Saddam Hussian yet, it is a very likely possibility in the future. Saddam has shown his willingness to use WMD and terror in the past, and supplying WMD materials to an organization like Al-quada is a likely possibility and must be prevented.
At a minimum, the UN inspectors must be let back in and be free to go where ever in Iraq and destroy any WMD materials found. Some type of safeguard would also have to be put in place to make sure Saddam could never develop WMD again. If these task cannot be accomplished, then I think that an invasion of Iraq would be warranted.
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Old 04-22-2002, 03:24 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome:
your point being?

Killing people to stop acts like those from happening, is what I meant.

I guess you are talking about Israel though.
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Old 04-22-2002, 03:57 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by nintendan:

The Palestinians aren't blowing themselves to prevent an attack on Iraq.
They are doing it so their family can get a whopping $25,ooo

Quote:
Iraq invaded Kuwait. A war was fought beacuse they had. Iraq left Kuwait and surrendered. Iraq has now said that it respects Kuwaits sovreignity.
And they have been throwing us "bones" every since. In 1994, they amassed 75% of their troops on the Kuwaiti border again. I know, I had to fly over there for that.

I would not believe a single thing they say, their desire is not to "trust anyone nation's sovreignity"

Quote:
A war against Iraq now doesn't have a thing to do with Kuwait.
Probably not

Quote:
Iraq doesn't trust the US that doesn't mean it has the right to attack the US does it.
September 11, 2001

Quote:
[b]No weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq./[B]
Now I'm laughing pretty hard

Quote:
The US has the most Weapons of Mass Destruction in the world. The US has enough weapons to destroy the whole world. The US is the only country in the world to use Nuclear weapons. These weapons were used on a civilain population. The US has more biological weapons than all other countries combined. One might say its dangerous for all countries to have WMD but the same logic can be applied to gun rights in the US.
I'm not sure what your point is here other than to sympathize with Iraq, make the USA look like the great satan, show your opinions as if they were facts.

You remind me of John Walker Lindh.

Quote:
A war against Iraq now doen't have a thing to do with weapons of Mass Destruction.
LOL
DO you even consider the fact that there are missing weapons such as the "suitcase nukes" that can do considerable damage when they are used, and I believe they will if not recovered.

Quote:
There hasn't been any connection found between Iraq and 9/11. It almost seems as if the US wants for there to be a connection.
Laughing even harder now

Quote:
A war against Iraq now doen't have a thing to do with the war on terrorism.
They say ignorance is bliss, I say funny too

Quote:
"E-L-E-C-T, I wonder if they even know what that means???? Do you?????"
Elect,e-lekt',vt. To pick or choose; to select for an office.-a. Chosen; chosen to an office, but not yet in office.-n. sing. or pl. One of several chosen; those favored by God.
~from New Webster's Dictionary

Quote:
I'm not saying that the Palestinians vote. I was only making a point in regards to the deal that Palestinians should accept by using a previous poster's sentence.

Do I know what ELECT means? I certainly do, but looking at the last US elections it doesn't seem as if you do.

Ha Ha,
Sounds like a Gore loser, I mean sore loser.
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Old 04-22-2002, 07:31 AM   #26
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Originally posted by STING2:
[B]Anthony,The British have as much interest as the USA with the war on terrorism. The UK is just as much a target of terror as the USA is. B]
I'm sorry, but I do not agree with this. Yes, it is true, we have known terrorism very VERY well, albeit a different type of terrorism, however, the parallels can not be made. Why? Because for countless of decades, Britain has been the target of countless and countless of IRA attacks, and it was always our problem; when did the USA ever even support the British in destroying the IRA? The answer is, it didn't. In fact, many over here get the distinct impression that the IRA was actually encouraged by America, indeed, Ireland could almost always rely on America for anything.

No, I'm not bitter about it at all, its a pure and simple observation; if Britain, who arguably has suffered just as much as the USA - if not more, which I think is the case - has had to go it alone thanks to international indifference, when everybody else was pretty much concerned with their own problems, I do not see what is so wrong with Britain realising that this is an American problem (since it WAS an attack on American soil) and simply dissolve from this war on terrorism. I agreed with strikes on Afghanistan, but I do not believe in the UK giving the USA a blank cheque in everything Bush demands. Ultimately, it is not in our interest. What WAS in our interest was the IRA, but then again nobody really helped us in that, and we didn't need to go around saying that 'if you're not with us, you're against us'.

Ant.
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Old 04-22-2002, 07:45 PM   #27
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Anthony,
Over 100 british citizens were killed in the World Trade Center attack. When was the last time a single IRA attack killed that many British citizens?
The United Kingdom along with many if not most industrialized democracies have an economic and political interdependent nature between them, that makes most Global issue's of interest to them all. What effects me, effects you.
The US has worked very hard in negotiations to bring about a lasting peace in Northern Ireland. There has never been any support from the US government for the terror activities of the IRA. Private US citizens may have secretly made contributions to the IRA though. The Government in Ireland has been against the IRA as well as the US and UK. As far as needing military help to combat the IRA, the British don't need the USA in this case. The British military and police is more than strong enough to combat them.
Private US companies and US citizens as well as other tourist have helped to improve the situation in Northern Ireland economically which has been the real key to peace. There are still terrorist on the Protestant side and the IRA, but only the extremist which grow smaller every day.
Al-Quada and Palestinian terrorist fault the UK for their problems just as much as the USA. The UK is a capitalist democracy just like the USA is. The UK is a possible target and Al-quada agents have been arrested in the UK planning attacks.
Like all industrialized countries, the UK has huge interest in the middle east because of oil and its effect on the economy and the economies of its trading partners.
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Old 04-22-2002, 08:32 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2:
the target of the suicide bombers is not the Israely army, but kids at a disco or club, perhaps listening to U2. Or at a Passover supper having dinner...What do the kids at the Disco have to with the West Bank or Gaza?
But, according to some, they are "infidels" and legitimate targets just the same. Alleged "twentieth hijacker" Zacarias Moussaoui told U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema today that he prays "to Allah...for the destruction of the United States of America," and for "the destruction of the Jewish people and state." If that latter prayer request is not blatant, racist anti-Semitism, I don't know WHAT is.

I have conceded several times in here that I do not think Sharon is the best Israelil leader for peace, but some of you really need to take a look yourselves at groups like Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, and al Jihad for a source of blame rather than making excuses for them bombing seder dinners and dance clubs.

If you ask me, Al Qaeda and their violent allies make up one of the largest racist and religious hate groups in the world. They could take a clue from the left: celebrate diversity.

~U2Alabama

[This message has been edited by U2Bama (edited 04-22-2002).]
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Old 04-22-2002, 08:55 PM   #29
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alright sting2, i disagree with nearly everything you said, but thats fine.

but why do you think the states DID intervene and help good ol' kuwait? us interest was at stake and thats ALL.

ive been to greece and talked to some of the people there, they will tell you what they think of the us flat up. theyre full of shit in their foreign policy.

ask anyone who lives or lived on the island cyprus. as you all probably all know, turkey one day decided to take the northern half of the island away from greece by FORCE.

people ask "why didnt the us help? we all know why, its cause we have no oil. they care about themselves and thats about it."

exact wording, no. precisely put? yes.

and i find it funny how "awesome everything is now that afghans dont have to live under the taliban. wow did we ever do a great deed in freeing them."

if 9/11 hadnt happened, they wouldnt have done anything with the taliban.

oh, and china has been long considered to be a constant violater of human rights.

why dont we bomb them?

they only have a million+ man army, not too mention a massive stockpile of weapons...

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Old 04-22-2002, 09:19 PM   #30
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"Over 100 british citizens were killed in the World Trade Center attack. When was the last time a single IRA attack killed that many British citizens?"

A lot more British citizens were killed over the years in accumulation, though perhaps not in one go. September the 11th happened in one day, what happened to places all over London and all over the rest of Britain has taken place over three decades - just because it never received the media attention September 11th did doesn't mean the murders were fewer, the terrorism less consequential; in fact, I think it was worse.

"The United Kingdom along with many if not most industrialized democracies have an economic and political interdependent nature between them, that makes most Global issue's of interest to them all. What effects me, effects you."

Try telling that to the rest of Europe, who don't really care about the war on terrorism.

"The British military and police is more than strong enough to combat them."

The moment British military was used, it was accused of being brutal and unecessary by most observers, and the police was never enough to stop IRA madmen from bombing unsuspecting targets.

"Private US companies and US citizens as well as other tourist have helped to improve the situation in Northern Ireland economically which has been the real key to peace. There are still terrorist on the Protestant side and the IRA, but only the extremist which grow smaller every day."

No, the situation in Northern Ireland improved because everyone realised that the British government would never give in, and Blair's deals with Sinn Fein and the Unionists eventually lead to the IRA finding it increasingly difficult to operate, ecentually everyone knew that their pathetic war would have to end, so they decided to try to end it with peace talks and good intentions.

"The UK is a possible target and Al-quada agents have been arrested in the UK planning attacks."

The UK is a possivle target because its so closely aligned with the US, thanks to Blair constantly being seen as USA's bnest friend, as Bush calls him. I believe that if we weren't closely aligned, we wouldn't be so close to the target.

Ant.


[This message has been edited by Anthony (edited 04-22-2002).]
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