Bush Approved Torture Techniques - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-28-2004, 10:36 AM   #46
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 09:32 AM
you would have made an excellent member of O Js original defense team
__________________

__________________
deep is offline  
Old 12-28-2004, 10:50 AM   #47
War Child
 
Iskra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 752
Local Time: 06:32 PM
I love that his supporters get mad when we call him dumb and misinformed about the war and terrorism and Iraq and basically everything in general but when shit goes wrong he wasn't aware.
So the torture methods or procedures or whatever you want to call them were going on and he had no clue?
Come on.
Open your eyes.
Some of you people would have made great Nazis with your strong sense of blind nationalism.
-I'm not done.
__________________

__________________
Iskra is offline  
Old 12-28-2004, 10:53 AM   #48
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 09:32 AM
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 12-28-2004, 10:58 AM   #49
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
you would have made an excellent member of O Js original defense team
Dread is correctly pointing out the logical fallacy used to support the claim.

Trying to link Dread's clear logic to the OJ defense team is unnecessary. As much as you disapprove of Karl Rove, you seem to employ similar tactics with ease.

I guess when the arguments of those against Bush are exposed as flawed; the response is to scream louder.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 12-28-2004, 11:00 AM   #50
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 01:32 PM
Iskra, I know you're new to the forum, but we really strongly discourage casual "Nazi" references in Free Your Mind. Some of our members are (quite rightly) very sensitive to the issue, and we prefer that people use the term to refer only to actual, literal Nazis (i.e. Adolf Hitler and such) rather than persons with whom one disagrees or finds unlikable.

Thank you.
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 12-28-2004, 11:04 AM   #51
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 01:32 PM
I'm not sure, nbc, that there is a logical fallacy here. Iskra does have a good point: Bush's supporters are often (rightly) upset when Bush is portrayed as stupid or clueless. But when his detractors assume that he is well-informed and up-to-date, as it were, they defend him by claiming that it is possible he was ignorant.

That is certainly possible, I guess, but the problem I have is that Bush and his supporters so often speak of moral responsibility and accountability, yet point the finger everywhere but inward when something like this happens. "Oh, we had nothing to do with it, it was a few rogue soldiers. No matter what policies we may have had in place that implicitly encouraged, or at least allowed, ill treatment, we won't take responsibility for it."

This is why I am so angry.
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 12-28-2004, 11:17 AM   #52
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
I'm not sure, nbc, that there is a logical fallacy here. Iskra does have a good point: Bush's supporters are often (rightly) upset when Bush is portrayed as stupid or clueless. But when his detractors assume that he is well-informed and up-to-date, as it were, they defend him by claiming that it is possible he was ignorant.
I think there is a difference between cognative ability (the stupid label) and knowledge of every detail that occurs.

There is also a difference between holding Bush accountable for the actions as Commander in Chief and Bush directly approving the activities in question.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 12-28-2004, 11:37 AM   #53
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 12:32 PM


So we are wrong for being upset that Bush is portrayed as a idiot in here?

I do not get it....nowhere did I say he was NOT informed.

The paper trail of ACTUAL documents as opposed to the interpretations of the various articles is pretty damn clear.

#1 there was an executive order.
#2 some people followed the order appropriately
#3 some poeple went beyond the order
#4 ACTION was taken against those who went beyond the oprder.

Sounds like when the White House was informed....things were done.

#5 New rules were put in place to make certain the EO was being followed accurately.


From where I stand, the ACTUAL memos show the President when informed did something about it.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 12-28-2004, 11:39 AM   #54
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
you would have made an excellent member of O Js original defense team
thank you, and you are excellent at being what you are
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 12-28-2004, 11:50 AM   #55
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 12:32 PM
One thing I do not like seeing, is the military pretending to be FBI Agents, deflecting the blame from them to the FBI.

I do not like reading that because it indicates to me that they are trying to create a climate of denyability.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 12-28-2004, 12:08 PM   #56
The Fly
 
odowdpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 215
Local Time: 12:32 PM
as a journalist, i know what key words and questions to look out for...in this case, its the old question, "who is writing this story and why?" you see who is writing it - the ACLU, a biased union, which is fine, and they use the word "suggest" and "charaterized" in the opening lines...this should have bells ringing in everyone's head that this might not be total truth and that these people are taking educated guesses as to what things mean.

Now I am not for this type of behavior, but you have to remember this union is looking for a one-sided story, they dont even bother to get the opposite side, which is important. They even have the gall to quote someone from their own union....c'mon now, lets get an official who is a 3rd party at the least.

take it for what its worth.
__________________
odowdpa is offline  
Old 12-28-2004, 02:51 PM   #57
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Dread is correctly pointing out the logical fallacy used to support the claim.

Trying to link Dread's clear logic to the OJ defense team is unnecessary. As much as you disapprove of Karl Rove, you seem to employ similar tactics with ease.

I guess when the arguments of those against Bush are exposed as flawed; the response is to scream louder.
After watching the first O J case
I was not surprised by the not guilty verdict
Attorneys I know said the verdict reached was correct for the evidence provided.

All I am saying is that defenders of these policies ask for concise evidence before they will concede the Administration’s policies are wrong and beyond the scope of what we as Americans have come to expect.


The preponderance of evidence supports the Administration is responsible for the environment the abuses occurred in
or they are not in control of what they have created and therefore are not fit to govern.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 12-28-2004, 03:22 PM   #58
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 12:32 PM
They are responsible for fighting a war like no other. There has never been a war against a terrorist organization, with representatives spread throughout the world. The former rules of war do not necessarily work against such an organization. I am willing to give the administration room to try new things, as long as I see when things are going badly, they are attempting to correct the mistakes. This is uncharted territory. The evidence is there that they have been taking steps to correct it. Or do we choose to ignore that part of the memo/emails?
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 12-28-2004, 03:45 PM   #59
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
The preponderance of evidence supports the Administration is responsible for the environment the abuses occurred in
Please remember, the original claim is "Presidential Order Authorizing Inhumane Interrogation Techniques" - not "the Adminstration created an environment......"

The evidence does not support the original claim.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 12-28-2004, 03:59 PM   #60
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 09:32 AM
sounds like the "dream team".
__________________

__________________
deep is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com