Bush Administration is Correct Iraq and Al-Qaeda are connected - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-21-2004, 11:25 AM   #1
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 11:44 PM
Bush Administration is Correct Iraq and Al-Qaeda are connected

Now, in the other thread, as the liberal media would have us believe that there were no contacts at all. As one member for the 9/11 Comission said "The New York Times" only reported one side of what was found by the comission.

SADLY....I think I agree with this article on some levels. There are many people in the world including AL-Qaeda that are hoping this comission will derail the president.

http://www.chronwatch.com/content/co...y.asp?aid=8027

Originally the comission was not supposed to be a political tool for people to destroy the administration. Especially since it is two administrations that apparently were unable to stop 9/11. It was also two administrations that believed they were working together.

[Q]''The President's correct. And the commission yesterday said exactly that. What the commission also said was there was no evidence of collaboration on any of the attacks against the United States. But we had previously pointed out that, particularly in Sudan, there is very hard evidence of collaboration on the X gas and other evidence, and additional contacts between Saddam's intelligence service and al Qaeda in the assistance in training in weapons, chemical and biological weapons, anthrax manufacture, and that's what we had in our report yesterday, but unfortunately, the New York Times sort of highlighted only one half of that.'' - Former Navy Secretary John Lehman, CNN’s June 17 “Inside Politics”[/Q]

As William Saffire points out they need to regain their non-partisan credibility:

[Q]What can the commission do now to regain its nonpartisan credibility?

1. Require every member to sign off on every word that the commission releases, or write and sign a minority report. No more "staff conclusions" without presenting supporting evidence, pro and con.

2. Set the record straight, in evidentiary detail, on every contact known between Iraq and terrorist groups, including Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's operations in Iraq. Include the basis for the Clinton-era "cooperating in weapons development" statement.

3. Despite the prejudgment announced yesterday by Kean and Democratic partisan Richard Ben-Veniste dismissing Mohammed Atta's reported meeting in Prague with an Iraqi spymaster, fairly spell out all the evidence that led to George Tenet's "not proven or disproven" testimony. (Start with www.edwardjayepstein.com.)

4. Show how the failure to retaliate after the attack on the U.S.S. Cole affected 9/11, how removing the director of central intelligence from running the C.I.A. would work, and how Congress's intelligence oversight failed abysmally.

5. Stop wasting time posturing on television and get involved writing a defensible commission report.

[/Q]
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/21/op...ner=ALTAVISTA1

As a citizen I am more concerned with the reason for the failures, so that changes can be made. In an election year however...it appears this is turning into Half -truth reporting, which some love because it reaffirms their half-assed positions. But the big picture is more than that.

Despite the efforts of the New York Times and Nancy Pelosi the ranking democrat on the comission had this to say.

[Q]''I must say I have trouble understanding the flap over this. The vice president is saying, I think, that there were connections between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's government. We don't disagree with that. So it seems to me that the sharp differences that the press has drawn, the media has drawn, are not that apparent to me.'' - 9/11 Commission Democrat Vice Chairman Lee Hamilton[/Q]

and in the testimony to the 9/11 comission comes this gem from members of the Clinton Administration:

[Q]William Cohen, secretary of defense under Clinton, testified to this before the September 11 Commission on March 23, 2004. Cohen was asked about U.S. attacks on a Sudanese pharmaceutical factory on August 20, 1998. The strikes came 13 days after al Qaeda terrorists bombed U.S. embassies in East Africa, killing some 257 people (including 12 Americans) and injuring more than 5,000. The Clinton administration and the intelligence community quickly determined that al Qaeda was behind the attacks and struck back at the facility in Sudan and at an al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan. Almost immediately, the decision to attack the plant outside Khartoum was controversial. [/B]The Clinton administration, in its efforts to justify the strikes, told reporters that the plant had strong links to Iraq's chemical weapons program. No fewer than six top Clinton administration officials--on the record--cited the Iraq connection to justify its strikes in response to the al Qaeda attacks on the U.S. embassies. [/B][/Q]

So before the 9/11 Comission the CLINTON administration officials reaffirmed that they believe there was a direct connection between Al-Qaeda and Iraq.

My humble apologies to those who would believe that there is no CONNECTION between Iraq and Al-Qaeda. There may very well be no conncetion between Iraq and 9/11....but the President has not lied to us. The media has.


http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...4/248eaurh.asp
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 11:29 AM   #2
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 11:44 PM
[Q]"This administration never said that the 9-11 attacks were orchestrated between Saddam and al Qaeda," Bush added. "We did say there were numerous contacts between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. For example, Iraqi intelligence officers met with bin Laden, the head of al Qaeda, in the Sudan. There's numerous contacts between the two."[/Q]

Well said President Bush....well Said.
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 11:41 AM   #3
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:44 PM
Please don't let facts get in the way of adminstration bashing.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 11:53 AM   #4
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 05:44 AM
As i mentioned in another thread the Bush administration likes to reasaemble facts like Mr. Moore.
Both love to make the facts look like they would assist their claims and i'm sure both sides feel terribly sorry that the uneducated masses might make wrong assumtions because of the way the facts are presented.
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:00 PM   #5
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 11:44 PM
Klaus....I quoted Democrats from the Clinton years....LOL....sounds like more spin.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:21 PM   #6
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 12:44 AM
Even if Bush never actually said "I believe Iraq and 9/11 are connected" or something similar, that does not necessarily mean there was no attempt to link the two in the minds of the public. Reviewing the evidence, I find that it's not so much Bush, but Cheney who made more of the attempts to link the two in the consciousness. And we are all familiar with the polls stating that an astonishing percentage (anywhere between 44 and 69 percent) of Americans thought, in the months leading up to war, that Iraq was reponsible for 9/11--but that a few days after the attacks, less than three percent thought so.


To wit:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0314/p02s01-woiq.html

A New York Times/CBS poll this week [week of March 14, 2003] shows that 45 percent of Americans believe Mr. Hussein was "personally involved" in Sept. 11, about the same figure as a month ago.

Sources knowledgeable about US intelligence say there is no evidence that Hussein played a role in the Sept. 11 attacks, nor that he has been or is currently aiding Al Qaeda. Yet the White House appears to be encouraging this false impression, as it seeks to maintain American support for a possible war against Iraq and demonstrate seriousness of purpose to Hussein's regime.

"The administration has succeeded in creating a sense that there is some connection [between Sept. 11 and Saddam Hussein]," says Steven Kull, director of the Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) at the University of Maryland.
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:27 PM   #7
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 02:44 PM
Ahem

Did anybody see these little gem that may change the playing field come november?


Quote:
A senior officer in Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's security services was a member of the terrorist group that committed the September 11 attacks, a member of the commission investigating the suicide hijackings said yesterday.
Quote:
Lehman said the information, contained in "captured documents," was obtained after the commission report was written that stated there was no evidence of a "collaborative relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda.

"Some of these documents indicate that (there was) at least one officer of Saddam's Fedayeen, a lieutenant colonel, who was a very prominent member of al Qaeda," Lehman said.

"That still has to be confirmed, but the vice president (Dick Cheney (news - web sites)) was right when he said that he may have things that we don't yet have," said Lehman, a former Navy secretary.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ntelligence_dc

http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...4414-5078r.htm
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:31 PM   #8
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 11:44 PM
So let me understand this.....You post an article from March 2003.

You clipped the beginning of the Paragraph where it says this

[Q]
Bush never pinned blame for the attacks directly on the Iraqi president. [/Q]

Emphasizing that the President did not say Iraq and 9/11 were linked.

You also failed to point out that your article supports the Presidents contention that Iraq was directly involved with terrorists.

[Q]Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden himself recently encouraged the perception of a link, when he encouraged attacks on the US in response to a US war against Iraq. But, terror experts note, common animosity toward the United States does not make Hussein and Mr. bin Laden allies.

Hussein, a secularist, and bin Laden, a Muslim fundamentalist, are known to despise each other. Bin Laden's stated sympathies are always toward the Iraqi people, not the regime.

This is not to say that Hussein has no link to terrorists. Over the years, terrorist leader Abu Nidal - who died in Baghdad last year - used Iraq as a sometime base. Terrorism experts also don't rule out that some Al Qaeda fighters have slipped into Iraqi territory.

The point, says Eric Larson, a senior policy analyst at RAND who specializes in public opinion and war, is that the US public understands what Hussein is all about - which includes his invasion of two countries and the use of biological and chemical agents. "He's expressed interest - and done more than that - in trying to develop a nuclear capability," says Mr. Larson. "In general, the public is rattled about this.... There's a jumble of attitudes in many Americans' minds, which fit together as a mosaic that [creates] a basic predisposition for military action against Saddam."

[/Q]


Good article. Maybe belongs in the other thread, this one is about terrorist links...the other about 9/11

The President has publicly said that Iraq is not involved.
The 9/11 Comission agrees with the administration that there was contact.

And he gets the blame for the 45% who believe that Saddam was involved.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:33 PM   #9
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: slovenija
Posts: 20,951
Local Time: 05:44 AM
Re: Bush Administration is Correct Iraq and Al-Qaeda are connected

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dreadsox
no evidence of collaboration on any of the attacks against the United States.

Which, AFAIK, is the opposite of what lots of Americans believed and still believe - that Iraq is a revenge for 9/11.
Both Bush (later) and the comission (now) said Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

We also know Iraq was a secular regime that had any kind of religious activity banned, and Bin Laden in particular hated Iraqui authorities for it and referred to them as infidels. Even if there were ties between them, that does not mean Saddam had anything to do with 9/11, which is what the comission is investigating.

However I definitely think Al Kaeda agents are in Iraq now.
__________________
U2girl is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:34 PM   #10
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 05:44 AM
I wasn't directly comenting the quotes.
I wanted to say - technically the administration dosn't lie they just love to put it in a context that the public gets it wrong.
Example: look how many people thought Saddam was responsible for 9/11 directly after the attack and then a few weeks later after the administration loved to talk about Al-Quaida and 9/11 and then about Iraq and Terrorism.
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:36 PM   #11
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 12:44 AM
I said that I know Bush denied direct links between Iraq and 9/11. The fact that there are links between Iraq and al Qaeda doesn't let his adminstration off the hook for some of the attempts to link Iraq and 9/11 in people's minds.

Other polls put the figure closer to 60 or 70 percent. I posted that article because it was from right around the time the war started.
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:40 PM   #12
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 02:44 PM
Look Saddam Husseins Iraq banning any religous activity that is a falsity. If you sit down and watch that torture video you will see mukhabarat agents slice the hands of prisoners and chant for god's graces. There were undeniable links between Saddam Hussein and islamic terrorism and the linkage between Al Qaeda is also a distinct possibility as some evidence is starting to point to. Remember that our intelligence on any meetings and connections is extremely patchy at best but from what we know and what we have seen it is highly possible that there was an established relationship.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:46 PM   #13
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 11:44 PM
Regardless, I started this thread, not to debate 9/11. There is already a thread for that. This administration has not said Iraq was involved. They have consistently said there were connections. The article you linked to even said OSAMA himself touted a connection.

Can't a thread be started without having to debate 9/11. The commission themsleves as I have quoted says there is NO DISAGREEMENT between the White House and the Comission on this issue. There are ties between Saddam and Al-Qaeda as well as OTHER Terrorist organizations. The Commission does not have a mandate to investigate the other links. They are allowed access only to the relevant materials to 9/11.

If people choose to believe Saddam is Linked to 9/11 that is through their own fault and ignorance. They have not been listening at all to the fact that this administration said they would be going after states that sponsor terrorism. Iraq was a sponsor of terrorism. I care not that it was or was not al-qaeda because they have done what they said they would do. It is not the administrations fault if people do not listen.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:50 PM   #14
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 11:44 PM
"For states that support terror, it is not enough that the consequences be
costly-they must be devastating"
-George w. Bush at a speech at The Citadel, Dec 11, 2001.

Now I ask you what does this mean??????? It is relevant. People have been saying that Iraq was about 9/11. That is wrong! If you think they were not involved in terrorism aside from Al-Qaeda you are wrong.

You may not agree with the action, but do not stoop the the media's level and ignore the facts of the situation. The press should look in the mirror and ask themselves why people think this. I have read so much on the topic it sickens me that they blame the President for other people's inability to listen and learn.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:50 PM   #15
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 02:44 PM
It is true that you may fool all of the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all of the time; but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.

It rings true for both sides, politics is a deliciously dirty game that has lives and security at stake, isnt it cool.
__________________

__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com