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Old 06-21-2004, 02:09 PM   #16
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Dreadsox: I ask you why do a lot of Americans feel Saddam was connected with 9/11, then? Did the whole "axis" of evil thing not contribute to that - surely the administration must have led them to beLIEve that?

Second, if by "terorrism" you mean Palestinians, I disagree. (because, as IRA or Checnians, they fight for freedom and independence - plus they also attack military targets, not strictly civilians. With wrong means, maybe, but still.)

OK, I'm sure no one approves of suicide bombers - but then again, I also don't think that putting up curfues, destroying whole villages and blocks and building walls will help either. No extremism on ANY part will help.

I think Middle East FAIR peace is the key to strike a huge blow to terrorists (along with total and immediate intelligence exchange among countries, blocking bank accounts, diplomatic pressure from the international community and, effective on the long run, doing more about the masses of people living in poverty in developed world) and US should stop being so totally pro-Israel all the time and hear out Palestine too.
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Old 06-21-2004, 02:40 PM   #17
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"For states that support terror, it is not enough that the consequences be
costly-they must be devastating"
-George w. Bush at a speech at The Citadel, Dec 11, 2001.

Ok the US supported terror in various countries - so what are GWBs devastating consequences?
Destroying the credibility of the USA?
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Old 06-21-2004, 03:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2girl
Dreadsox: I ask you why do a lot of Americans feel Saddam was connected with 9/11, then? Did the whole "axis" of evil thing not contribute to that - surely the administration must have led them to beLIEve that?

I beLIEve that the press is trying to paint the blame on Bush. I think it is wrong. I think people who educate themselves know better. I think the press instead of reporting news, is creating controversy where there is none. I think Melon is right, the avergage American has not bothered to concern themselves with the truth.

The axis of evil thing was a correct analysis of the countries mentioned. Never has anyone from the administration said that the Axis of Evil was responsible for 9/11.

Spin it anywayyou want, Iraq was part of the war on terror.
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Old 06-21-2004, 04:04 PM   #19
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"With nuclear arms or a full arsenal of chemical and biological
weapons, Saddam Hussein could resume his ambitions of conquest
in the Middle East and create deadly havoc in that region. And
this Congress and the America people must recognize another
threat. Evidence from intelligence sources, secret
communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal
that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including
members of al-Qaida.
Secretly, and without fingerprints, he
could provide one of his hidden weapons to terrorists, or help
them develop their own."
- President Bush, State of the Union Speech, Jan. 28, 2003.


"But what I want to bring to your attention today is the
potentially much more sinister nexus between Iraq and the
al-Qaida terrorist network, a nexus that combines classic
terrorist organizations and modern methods of murder. Iraq today
harbors a deadly terrorist network headed by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
an associate and collaborator of Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaida
lieutenants. . But Baghdad has an agent in the most senior levels
of the radical organization Ansar al-Islam that controls this
corner of Iraq. In 2000, this agent offered al-Qaida safe haven
in the region. We know members of both organizations met
repeatedly and have met at least eight times at very senior
levels since the early 1990s. In 1996, a foreign security service
tells us that bin Laden met with a senior Iraqi intelligence
official in Khartoum and later met the director of the Iraqi
intelligence service. Saddam became more interested as he saw
al-Qaida's appalling attacks. A detained al-Qaida member tells us
that Saddam was more willing to assist al-Qaida after the 1998
bombings of our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Saddam was also
impressed by al-Qaida's attacks on the USS Cole in Yemen in
October 2000.
"
- Secretary of State Colin Powell, Statement to the U.N.
Security Council, Feb. 5, 2003.


"After the attacks of September the 11th, 2001, we will not allow
grave threats to go unopposed. We are now working to locate and
destroy Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. This is a historic
moment. Just over a month ago, not all that long ago, a cruel
dictator ruled a country, ruled Iraq by torture and fear. His
regime was allied with terrorists, and the regime was armed with
weapons of mass destruction.
Today, that regime is no more."
- President Bush, Speech to workers at Abrams tank plant in
Lima, Ohio, April 24, 2003.


"The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began
on September the 11, 2001
- and still goes on. That terrible
morning, 19 evil men - the shock troops of a hateful ideology -
gave America and the civilized world a glimpse of their
ambitions. They imagined, in the words of one terrorist, that
September the 11th would be the 'beginning of the end of
America.' By seeking to turn our cities into killing fields,
terrorists and their allies believed that they could destroy
this nation's resolve, and force our retreat from the world.
They have failed."
- President Bush, aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln,
May 1, 2003.


"The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that still
goes on.
al-Qaida is wounded, not destroyed. The scattered cells
of the terrorist networks still operate in many nations. And we
know from daily intelligence that they continue to plot against
free people. The proliferation of deadly weapons remains a
serious danger. The enemies of freedom are not idle, and neither
are we. Our government has taken unprecedented measures to defend
our homeland and, more importantly, we will continue to hunt the
enemy down before he can strike. No act of terrorists will change
our purpose or weaken our resolve or alter their fate. Their
cause is lost. Free nations will press on to victory."
- President Bush, Weekly radio address, May 3, 2003.


"I think that if you ask, do we know that he had a role in 9-11
- No, we do not know that he had a role in 9-11. I think that
this is a test that sets the bar far too high. I don't think that
we want to try and make the case that he directed somehow the
9-11 events."

- National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice, Interview with
CNN's Wolf Blitzer, Sept. 8, 2003.


MR. RUSSERT: The Washington Post asked the American people about
Saddam Hussein, and this is what they said: 69 percent said he
was involved in the September 11 attacks.
Are you surprised by that?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: No. I think it's not surprising that people
make that connection.

MR. RUSSERT: But is there a connection?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: We don't know. You and I talked about this
two years ago. I can remember you asking me this question just a
few days after the original attack. At the time I said no, we
didn't have any evidence of that. Subsequent to that, we've
learned a couple of things. We learned more and more that there
was a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaida that stretched back
through most of the decade of the '90s, that it involved
training, for example, on BW and CW, that al-Qaida sent personnel
to Baghdad to get trained on the systems that are involved. The
Iraqis providing bomb-making expertise and advice to the
al-Qaida organization.

We know, for example, in connection with the original World Trade
Center bombing in '93 that one of the bombers was Iraqi, returned
to Iraq after the attack of '93.
And we've learned subsequent to
that, since we went into Baghdad and got into the intelligence
files, that this individual probably also received financing from
the Iraqi government as well as safe haven.

Now, is there a connection between the Iraqi government and the
original World Trade Center bombing in '93 ? We know, as I say,
that one of the perpetrators of that act did, in fact, receive
support from the Iraqi government after the fact. With respect to
9/11, of course, we've had the story that's been public out
there. The Czechs alleged that Mohamed Atta, the lead attacker,
met in Prague with a senior Iraqi intelligence official five
months before the attack, but we've never been able to develop
anymore of that yet either in terms of confirming it or
discrediting it. We just don't know.

- Vice President Dick Cheney, Interview with NBC's Tim
Russert, Sunday, Sept. 14, 2003.


Bush Reports No Evidence of Hussein Tie to 9/11
By DAVID E. SANGER (New York Times)

WASHINGTON, Sept. 17 - President Bush said today that he had
seen no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in the Sept.
11 terrorist attacks, as the White House tried to correct an
assertion that Vice President Dick Cheney left extremely murky
on Sunday.

Mr. Cheney, on "Meet the Press" on NBC-TV, was asked about
polls that showed that a majority of Americans believed that
Mr. Hussein had been involved in the attacks.

"I think it's not surprising that people make that
connection," said Mr. Cheney, who leads the hawkish wing of
the Bush administration. Asked whether the connection existed,
Mr. Cheney said, "We don't know."

He described Mr. Hussein's reported connections to Al Qaeda,
connections that American intelligence analysts say were not
very deep.

Mr. Bush, asked by a reporter today about that statement,
said, "No, we've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was
involved with September the 11th."
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Old 06-21-2004, 05:29 PM   #20
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For me this issue is-Bush had the intention, in my opinion, from the day he became President to get into Iraq and get rid of Saddam.

The tragedy of Sept 11th happened, and he had his justification. I'm not saying by any means that the goal of getting rid of Saddam was not a noble one. I just don't appreciate the use of Sept 11th in this way.

I don't believe for a second however that there aren't possible connections between Saddam/OBL/Iraq. Saddam is gone, but where is Bin Laden? There is constant "chatter" about possible Al Qaida attacks. The quote from Clinton that I posted in another thread re what he said to Bush about OBL and what Bush's reaction was brings it home for me. Also information (I haven't read the book, just from what I've read/seen in the news) in the Richard Clarke book. Who knows what could have been possible if 1/ 2 the time and resources spent on Iraq had been directed toward OBL/Al Qaida.
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Old 06-21-2004, 06:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
"Panel Finds No Qaeda-Iraq Tie" went the Times headline. "Al Qaeda-Hussein Link Is Dismissed" front-paged The Washington Post. The A.P. led with the thrilling words "Bluntly contradicting the Bush Administration, the commission. . . ." This understandably caused my editorial-page colleagues to draw the conclusion that "there was never any evidence of a link between Iraq and Al Qaeda. . . ."

All wrong. The basis for the hoo-ha was not a judgment of the panel of commissioners appointed to investigate the 9/11 attacks. As reporters noted below the headlines, it was an interim report of the commission's runaway staff, headed by the ex-N.S.C. aide Philip Zelikow. After Vice President Dick Cheney's outraged objection, the staff's sweeping conclusion was soon disavowed by both commission chairman Tom Kean and vice chairman Lee Hamilton.
From the
N.Y. Times
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Old 06-21-2004, 06:24 PM   #22
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OP-ED COLUMNIST

By WILLIAM SAFIRE





Quote:
The Conservative Chronicle - Biography of William Safire
WILLIAM SAFIRE Winner of a 1978 Pulitzer Prize for distinguished commentary, William
Safire served as a White House advisor and speechwriter during the Nixon Administation



Safire had an editorial in May that they found WMDs in Iraq.


I guess he has super secret information, like Cheney, that the 911 commission can not hear.

Information will be released the week of the election that will buoy W's base to make it to the polls.

We had the deception in the 2002 election cycle, expect it again.
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Old 06-21-2004, 06:33 PM   #23
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Smear the name and ignore the facts?
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Old 06-21-2004, 06:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I think Melon is right, the avergage American has not bothered to concern themselves with the truth.
And these are the people who will march their lazy asses to the polls in November and fuck the world over again with their stunning ignorance?

Grim.
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Old 06-21-2004, 06:43 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Smear the name and ignore the facts?
Facts?
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Old 06-21-2004, 08:21 PM   #26
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Originally posted by anitram


And these are the people who will march their lazy asses to the polls in November and fuck the world over again with their stunning ignorance?

Grim.
So if you vote for Bush you are ignorant?
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Old 06-21-2004, 08:26 PM   #27
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stunningly so. and lazy.
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Old 06-21-2004, 08:33 PM   #28
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Or just plain stubborn.
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Old 06-21-2004, 08:37 PM   #29
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Originally posted by Screaming Flower
stunningly so. and lazy.
now listen, I know you have been working all day, but when you are through cooking and doing the dishes can you get me a beer?
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Old 06-21-2004, 08:39 PM   #30
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Or just plain stubborn.
Been called worse in here
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