Brokeback Mountain

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from Time Magazine

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1151805-1,00.html

The film has managed to carry the luster of its daring, as one of the rare Hollywood movies that are frank about gay sexuality, without provoking the sustained ire of social and political conservatives. Says Jack Foley, Focus' chief of distribution: "America didn't resist the film for a second." Well, maybe for a second: the other night on CNN's Larry King when conservative radio host Janet Parshall said, "What we're witnessing, Larry, is the homosexualizing of America." And there are plenty of liberal straight guys like Seinfeld co-creator Larry David, who wrote a puckish Op-Ed in the New York Times, confessing, "Cowboys would have to lasso me, drag me into the theater and tie me to the seat" for him to see it. But most of those who disapprove of Brokeback--or think they would if they saw it--have curbed their outrage. They believe it's a serious, sensitive movie.

.................And, of course, the movie's stars are all hetero. "No one paying attention will fail to know that Heath Ledger just had a child by the woman who plays his wife," says Larry Gross, director of the U.S.C. Annenberg School for Communication, "and that Jake has been dating Kirsten Dunst." But then, every macho Hollywood star is straight--or must pretend to be. "The film says it's terrible that you couldn't be openly gay as a sheepherder in Montana in the '60s, but you can't be openly gay as a successful young actor in Hollywood in 2006," says Gross. "When an A-list romantic action lead comes out, that will be a Jackie Robinson moment."

So how much of a cultural shift does Brokeback represent? "This is the first sort of red-state gay movie," says producer Craig Zadan, who won a Best Picture Oscar for Chicago three years ago. "It's a movie with macho, masculine, acting-straight guys on horses, and it turns out to be a gay love story."

Schamus disputes that a chasm exists between big cities and God's country. "This whole red-state-- blue-state thing is absurd," he says. "The film has performed amazingly in Little Rock, Birmingham and Fort Worth, Texas. The fact is, Americans are Americans. There may be places where their politics in the aggregate tilt one way or the other, but do you cross a state boundary and turn into some other kind of animal? No. Americans talk to each other. Americans are listening to each other. And Brokeback is proving it."
 
The sinister siren song of a great script, strong acting and all that lush cinematography tempted them to eat the apple and savor its forbidden fruits. You know, empathy, recognition of a common humanity, dark stuff like that.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
conservative radio host Janet Parshall said, "What we're witnessing, Larry, is the homosexualizing of America."

I saw that interview. She was constantly using false arguments to support her opinion. You know if you just don't like gay people, then just be honest about your opinion instead of trying to make it seem like God is on your side.

Larry pointed out that they were all sinners, but she was essentially arguing that her sins were less evil. Called her on her biogtry, but she kept going.
 
Why are you scratching your head martha, America is being homosexualized! We must all run for cover!

Another interesting article from Newsweek

I wonder how many men who post in FYM have seen the movie, and what the true reasons are for men who don't want to see it. I HATE that term "chick flick" too..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10930877/site/newsweek/

"Mattis, 24, isn’t sure what all the fuss is about. “I don’t know why people really want it to come here,” he says. “I don’t like the drama-romances anyway, and I really don’t want to see one with two gay men.” But Mattis and the rest of the usually coveted audience of guys 18-34 years old aren’t the target this time. From early on, Focus said the film was aiming for the same female fans with upscale tastes who loved “Titanic.”

Ann Eichler, a 63-year-old grandmother in Scottsdale, Ariz., is smack in the middle of that demographic. She went to a 12:30 p.m. weekday showing without her husband and found the theater packed with women. “I think men are so uncomfortable with this kind of thing, even if they are very liberal-minded,” explains Eichler, who says she was enormously moved by the film. She admits she was “a little worried about a seeing a homosexual love scene, but I found I could handle it.” And she adds that her husband was kind of “don’t ask, don’t tell” about her seeing the movie. “He knows it’s out there, he just doesn’t want to talk about it.”

Eichler’s husband is not alone. On personal blogs, around water coolers and even on Web sites like WebMD.com, women are talking about trying to get their husbands to go see it and debating whether not wanting to see it makes you a homophobe--“no” say many heterosexual men, they just don’t want to see chick flicks. “I didn’t even want to see ‘Cold Mountain',” protests one. "
 
from the Larry King transcript

Janet Parshall, did you see the film? If so, what did you think of it?

JANET PARSHALL, RADIO HOST "JANET PARSHALL'S AMERICA": No, I didn't see the film and I'm not at all surprised that out of seven nominations Brokeback walked away with four and some might say that's an indication of what the Oscar ceremonies might look like later on this year.

KING: Why would you comment on it if you haven't seen it?

PARSHALL: Well, I'm interested in all of the buzz around the film. I'm not the least bit surprised that we're hearing so much chatter. After all, I think what we're witnessing, Larry, is the homosexualizing of America.

We've got the Book of Daniel with a gay theme and we've got Will and Grace with a gay theme and we're trying to get people, like me, people of faith who happen to believe that any sex outside of marriage, heterosexual or homosexual marriage, is wrong to try to somehow tolerate and even more importantly accept that lifestyle.

KING: Don't you think you might learn more by looking at it rather than looking away from it?

PARSHALL: No, I don't think so. In fact, let me tell you something about Ang Lee. He's a brilliant film director. I'll bet if he found a really good property dealing with, oh let's say polygamy, I bet he could tap into the human heart. I bet he could make people cry. I bet he could pull away the kinds of emotions that people allegedly get after they walk out of this film.

And would it really be about getting us to look at polygamy and accepting it or would it really be about an effective director who knows how to use a particular art form?

KING: Chad Allen, did you see it?

CHAD ALLEN, OPENLY GAY ACTOR: I did absolutely and it's an incredible film and I think it's being criticized across the board by conservative critics and by liberal critics alike as a great film. That's exactly what it is. It's a love story.

KING: Many conservative critics love it.

ALLEN: Love it. Sometimes begrudgingly they love it because they'll say "You know what, I may not even agree that it's good for America but I think it's a great film." You know Ang Lee is not a gay director. He took this film and I read a great article where he said he took this film because he wanted to find a new angle from which to tell the love story.

It's been told so many times he wanted to find a new way to tell it. This is one way that it hadn't been told yet and he dove into it. I think it's an incredible feature.

KING: There's no explicit sex in it.

ALLEN: No.

KING: In fact, the only come on scene is between a man and a woman at the rodeo.

ALLEN: Well, I mean there is -- there is a fantastic shocking sex scene that happens right off the bat but at least you know where he takes it.

KING: Yes, but it's not explicit.

ALLEN: And in fact it took me and what happened with me was I saw it and I went, oh no, I hope they're not going to make a movie about that. And then you watch these two guys fall in love and that's where the story is.

KING: Yes. Reverend Mohler, have you seen it?

R. ALBERT MOHLER, JR., PRESIDENT, SOUTHERN BAPTIST THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: I've not seen the movie, Larry, and that's a matter of decision, not just a matter of chance. Like others, I don't feel any need to see the movie. I have read the screenplay. I know the short story and, of course, I know what the movie is about because it's out there so much in the media.

That's the main issue. I am not a movie critic. I really can't speak to the cinematography. I can just speak to what the cultural meaning of this film is and why I see it as a great challenge.

KING: Didn't the short story move you at all?

MOHLER: Well, no, actually...

KING: For example, you're a reverend, didn't you have some compassion for what happened to the younger one of the two?

MOHLER: Well, absolutely. You have to feel compassion when anyone feels pain and when anyone goes through that kind of struggle. But, you know, I really am horrified to think about where that story ended.
 
Did anyone see on the news last night, Bush had that unscripted town meeting thing and a guy asked him if he had seen Brokeback Mountain- he seemed rather uncomfortable and sort of giggled :rolleyes:

from Drudge Report

BUSH: NO 'BROKEBACK'
Mon Jan 23 2006 17:09:44 ET

President Bush has so far skipped BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN -- the Hollywood hit about two homosexual cowboys.

During a Q&A session at Kansas State University today, a student asked Bush: "I was just wanting to get your opinion on BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN if you'd seen it yet."

The crowd laughed softly before the student said loudly: "You would love it! You should check it out."

"I haven't seen it," Bush said flatly. "I'd be glad to talk about ranching, but I haven't seen the movie," he said to laughter. "I've heard about it."

The president waited a second or two, then said, according to a transcript: "I hope you go -- (laughter) -- you know -- (laughter) -- I hope you go back to the ranch and the farm, is what I was about to say. I haven't seen it. (Laughter, applause.)"
 
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MrsSpringsteen said:

The president waited a second or two, then said, according to a transcript: "I hope you go -- (laughter) -- you know -- (laughter) -- I hope you go back to the ranch and the farm, is what I was about to say. I haven't seen it. (Laughter, applause.)"

That's how a five-year-old would react. I always knew he was an infantile idiot. Jeez. :rolleyes:
 
[q]Ann Eichler, a 63-year-old grandmother in Scottsdale, Ariz., is smack in the middle of that demographic. She went to a 12:30 p.m. weekday showing without her husband and found the theater packed with women. “I think men are so uncomfortable with this kind of thing, even if they are very liberal-minded,” explains Eichler, who says she was enormously moved by the film. She admits she was “a little worried about a seeing a homosexual love scene, but I found I could handle it.” And she adds that her husband was kind of “don’t ask, don’t tell” about her seeing the movie. “He knows it’s out there, he just doesn’t want to talk about it.”[/q]

[q]KING: Don't you think you might learn more by looking at it rather than looking away from it?

PARSHALL: No, I don't think so. In fact, let me tell you something about Ang Lee. He's a brilliant film director. I'll bet if he found a really good property dealing with, oh let's say polygamy, I bet he could tap into the human heart. I bet he could make people cry. I bet he could pull away the kinds of emotions that people allegedly get after they walk out of this film.

And would it really be about getting us to look at polygamy and accepting it or would it really be about an effective director who knows how to use a particular art form?
[/q]



:sigh:

these comments literally make me sad. it's perfectly logical for me to sit back and think that these are just misinformed, ignorant people who are entitled to their opinions, blah, blah, blah; but deep down, it does bother me that how love and lust expresses themselves in my life is deeply repugnant to some other people.

i'm not looking for approval, nor do i want it.

but, still, it does bother me that i disgust people. i know it's not my issue, but it still fills me, in my more vulnerable moments, with ... not quite self-loathing, but something akin to that. almost like i need to apologize.

that said, the woman is a fool.
 
Irvine511 said:
but, still, it does bother me that i disgust people. i know it's not my issue, but it still fills me, in my more vulnerable moments, with ... not quite self-loathing, but something akin to that. almost like i need to apologize.
I wish there was something I could say that could adequately respond to this, but there really isn't.

Discriminatory attitudes and stereotypes are one thing--visceral hatred and disgust are something else entirely. I wish it were the case that I could look into my own people's or family's past and share some wise secret for how to go about undoing the latter, but "Wait until something unspeakably awful happens, then maybe people will be shocked enough by the consequences to see the wisdom of not tolerating such attitudes" is just not an acceptable answer.

For what it's worth, it pains me deeply to not have a better response to offer.
 
yolland said:
For what it's worth, it pains me deeply to not have a better response to offer.



thank you for trying.

it's just one of those things ... i suppose that, in one sense, to quote trainspotting, that if "it's all about aesthetics and fuck all to do with morality," then i really shouldn't get upset about someone reacting to what has been called the "ick factor" in homosexual relationships, though it seems to apply much more to male couples than female couples. if it's just aesthetics, then really, i don't get upset when people don't like, say, spinach, so why should i get upset if someone is grossed out by the idea of two men kissing? it's just personal taste, right?

i think that expressions of love and lust are simply more complicated and emotional than food preference or visual aesthetics. the fact that it's deeply repugnant to some ... well, it's not much i can do about that. and i do check my behavior. i don't hold hands while walking down the street, not even in the majority gay streets in East Dupont and Logan Circle. only in front of close friends, and usually after alcohol has been consumed, will i show any sort of physical affection towards my BF.

i tell myself that i'm just trying to be polite.

interesting you bring up the "unspeakably awful" -- there's a great discussion to be had between the historical basis for anti-semitism and the historical basis for homophobia as being cut from the same cloth (clannish, feared to be secretly powerful, able to blend in and "pass," both have committed sins against the Christian heirarchy yet live quietly among them) as well as being victims of an "unspeakably awful event" (holocaust/AIDS) that has drawn attention to both the group and to the discriminatory conditions that surround the group.
 
This will be of little consolation but just wanted to share that one of my colleagues, a 65 year old woman, has seen Brokeback Mountain twice and announced this morning that if the man she is dating will not accompany her to her third viewing, and he says he will not, then she is going to break up with him because she doesn't want to be with someone "that insecure and close-minded." This was the last straw, apparently. So it is impacting people in some surprising ways.
 
^wow that's interesting joyfulgirl

My Mother is around that age and she has no interest in seeing it-but she hardly ever goes to the movies and is very picky about what she sees. I told her about Brokeback Mountain and I wish she would see it. She is fairly open minded about gay issues, especially for someone of her generation. I am working on her :wink:
 
Irvine511 said:
and i do check my behavior. i don't hold hands while walking down the street, not even in the majority gay streets in East Dupont and Logan Circle. only in front of close friends, and usually after alcohol has been consumed, will i show any sort of physical affection towards my BF.

i tell myself that i'm just trying to be polite.
to some extent, you are--though the component of fear underlying your reserve obviously makes it different. I have to admit that I personally am enough of a prude or something like that, that I find zealous PDA distasteful coming from ANYONE. But of course I'm not talking holding hands, casually tossing an arm around your partner or the like. We have a few friends who are gay couples, and it's important to us that they know that for them to put an arm around one another when they're in our house is just fine. We don't want them to feel like they should be guarded around our kids or something.
interesting you bring up the "unspeakably awful" -- there's a great discussion to be had between the historical basis for anti-semitism and the historical basis for homophobia as being cut from the same cloth (clannish, feared to be secretly powerful, able to blend in and "pass," both have committed sins against the Christian heirarchy yet live quietly among them) as well as being victims of an "unspeakably awful event" (holocaust/AIDS) that has drawn attention to both the group and to the discriminatory conditions that surround the group.
Don't know about the AIDS/Holocaust analogy, since the latter was directly caused by the contempt and hatred of others, and as far as Christian hierarchy goes I daresay there are more gays among them than Jews :wink: , but yes, much of the rest of it applies to both. What I just can't ever get around--which is also in some measure common to both--is this visceral disgust and ability to see other human beings as "vermin." Paranoia about the all-powerful gay lobby or Jewish bankers you can defuse to some point--when people start throwing in the "filthy, dirty Jews/fags" kind of talk on the other hand, that's a whole other order of enemy entirely.
 
yolland said:
Don't know about the AIDS/Holocaust analogy, since the latter was directly caused by the contempt and hatred of others, and as far as Christian hierarchy goes I daresay there are more gays among them than Jews :wink: , but yes, much of the rest of it applies to both. What I just can't ever get around--which is also in some measure common to both--is this visceral disgust and ability to see other human beings as "vermin." Paranoia about the all-powerful gay lobby or Jewish bankers you can defuse to some point--when people start throwing in the "filthy, dirty Jews/fags" kind of talk on the other hand, that's a whole other order of enemy entirely.



it's a far from perfect analogy, but there are parallels, less in their genesis and more in their aftermath.

and i was poorly worded about the Christian heirarchy -- what i meant was that there were jews living quite successfully in Christian countries.

but its a long topic, and i have a meeting in 7 minutes. i will try and expound on it later in the day, but in a short sentence, mass death lets the world know that, hey, we have a problem here.
 
There have been a couple of references to Larry David's NYT op-ed piece but I only just now read the actual piece. So here it is for some comic relief:

Op-Ed Contributor
Cowboys Are My Weakness

By LARRY DAVID
Published: January 1, 2006

SOMEBODY had to write this, and it might as well be me. I haven't seen "Brokeback Mountain," nor do I have any intention of seeing it. In fact, cowboys would have to lasso me, drag me into the theater and tie me to the seat, and even then I would make every effort to close my eyes and cover my ears.

And I love gay people. Hey, I've got gay acquaintances. Good acquaintances, who know they can call me anytime if they had my phone number. I'm for gay marriage, gay divorce, gay this and gay that. I just don't want to watch two straight men, alone on the prairie, fall in love and kiss and hug and hold hands and whatnot. That's all.

Is that so terrible? Does that mean I'm homophobic? And if I am, well, then that's too bad. Because you can call me any name you want, but I'm still not going to that movie.

To my surprise, I have some straight friends who've not only seen the movie but liked it. "One of the best love stories ever," one gushed. Another went on, "Oh, my God, you completely forget that it's two men. You in particular will love it."

"Why me?"

"You just will, trust me."

But I don't trust him. If two cowboys, male icons who are 100 percent all-man, can succumb, what chance to do I have, half- to a quarter of a man, depending on whom I'm with at the time? I'm a very susceptible person, easily influenced, a natural-born follower with no sales-resistance. When I walk into a store, clerks wrestle one another trying to get to me first. My wife won't let me watch infomercials because of all the junk I've ordered that's now piled up in the garage. My medicine cabinet is filled with vitamins and bald cures.

So who's to say I won't become enamored with the whole gay business? Let's face it, there is some appeal there. I know I've always gotten along great with men. I never once paced in my room rehearsing what to say before asking a guy if he wanted to go to the movies. And I generally don't pay for men, which of course is their most appealing attribute.

And gay guys always seem like they're having a great time. At the Christmas party I went to, they were the only ones who sang. Boy that looked like fun. I would love to sing, but this weighty, self-conscious heterosexuality I'm saddled with won't permit it.

I just know if I saw that movie, the voice inside my head that delights in torturing me would have a field day. "You like those cowboys, don't you? They're kind of cute. Go ahead, admit it, they're cute. You can't fool me, gay man. Go ahead, stop fighting it. You're gay! You're gay!"

Not that there's anything wrong with it.
 
Irvine511 said:



but, still, it does bother me that i disgust people. i know it's not my issue, but it still fills me, in my more vulnerable moments, with ... not quite self-loathing, but something akin to that. almost like i need to apologize.


People with their own insecurities and issues have a way to make us feel bad about ourselves at times...but at the end of the day it doesnt really matter what they think.

For every person like that there is a person who doesnt find you disgusting and values you for the person you are not the person they think you should be.
 
joyfulgirl said:
This will be of little consolation but just wanted to share that one of my colleagues, a 65 year old woman, has seen Brokeback Mountain twice and announced this morning that if the man she is dating will not accompany her to her third viewing, and he says he will not, then she is going to break up with him because she doesn't want to be with someone "that insecure and close-minded." This was the last straw, apparently. So it is impacting people in some surprising ways.


Good for her! Things like that really gives me hope.
 
In regards to what that Parshall person said...first off, trying to bring up something like polygamy and put it in the same ballpark as homosexuality is just...ergh. Second,

And would it really be about getting us to look at polygamy and accepting it or would it really be about an effective director who knows how to use a particular art form?

Or, you know, it could just be about a situation that's taking place. Whether or not one wishes to accept what's going on is entirely up to them. I'm guessing that's the aim the director of "Brokeback Mountain" went for-he just made a movie about a situation between two men. It's still up to each individual person to decide for themselves whether or not they want to accept what's going on.

Also...

KING: Don't you think you might learn more by looking at it rather than looking away from it?

PARSHALL: No, I don't think so.

They don't think so? Pardon me, but...how else are you supposed to learn about something?

Bah. Anywho, :hug: for Irvine.

Angela
 
Did anyone else see last night's Daily Show with the report on the gay rodeo and the interview with the 'real' cowboy? I love how they always make their point with humor and I am constantly amazed that they still get these people to talk to them. Have they never seen the show? Don't they know when they are being mocked?

Anyway - if you didn't catch the episode it will replay tonight at 7pm or 8pm, I think.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
How DARE you!

You post this piece that mocks the most un-Gay manliest man in the history of manly men in the exclusively heterosexual field of the performing arts, a man who in a different world would have been a priest (no homosexual urges in anyone who choses a life with the Church), a man who has sired a Hubbardly child with the vessel Katie Holmes who must have concieved before they met (the power of will and being an OTVII enables this btw). A man who by definition you cannot be gay and be a scientologist it's methods simply cure the mental abberations that cause deviant behaviour.

You know who will you go after next in these packs of lies? The late Rock Hudson or married man John Travolta!
 
It hasn´t gotten to Honduras yet but I can´t wait.

Homophobia is still at large here at such a rate I don´t it will even make it to theaters. Might have to wait to rent it on DVD.

But I´ll let you know what the reaction around here is.
 
MANHATTAN, Kan AP. - One student wants to marry him, another is calling him "a total tool." Jeremy Parker is getting a mixed reaction to his asking President Bush if he'd seen "Brokeback Mountain."

The Kansas State University Campus Forum is full of reaction. One student wrote to Parker "you're my hero." Another "thanks" Parker for "embarrassing" their school. And another student wrote "I tried to imagine a bigger waste of space than Jeremy Parker. I got nothing."

Parker told "Inside Edition" that he asked the question because the ones that came before his were "boring" and he wanted to keep the president "on his toes."
 
Check out today's USA TOday.....my fave (OMG!!!!) is the "Buckbeak Mountain" (Harry Potter) spoof of the BBM now-famous BBM poster, with Snape and Lupin looking warm and fuzzy....
Does anyone have alink to the HP spoof????
 
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