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Old 03-07-2006, 02:53 PM   #376
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"The two most important things about our campaign were getting 'Crash' to be seen by everyone who needed to see it and then reminding them of how 'Crash' made them feel," said Tom Ortenberg, president of Lionsgate Theatrical Films.

The logic was to "win" the city, while counting on voters in the rest of the nation, mainly the New York contingent, to split their votes among all five nominees, which also included "Capote," "Good Night, and Good Luck" and "Munich" as well as "Brokeback."

Ortenberg said Lionsgate never intentionally ceded other parts of the country. But as a company with limited resources, he said, it had to focus on L.A.

How Crash Went Bang

http://theenvelope.latimes.com/colum...5184709.column

huffingtonpost.com

Gene Stone Tue Mar 7

One of the best rumors floating around on DataLounge.com, the popular gay website, is that old Hollywood was so determined to stop Brokeback Mountain from receiving a Best Picture Oscar that Jack Nicholson, who announced the award, promised his cronies that if Brokeback won, he would announce the movie Crash instead. What could the Academy do about it? They couldn't take it back. They couldn't award another one to Brokeback.

It's a pleasantly paranoid possibility, about as likely to be true as Tom Cruise being in love with Katie Holmes. But it is a mark of how genuinely confused many people are. Brokeback was the better movie, it encompassed a larger scope, it featured better performances, and was better directed (which the academy recognized by awarding Ang Lee the Oscar.) And Brokeback broke new ground in its subject matter, while Crash exposed the fact that yes, despite their best intentions, white people who live in Los Angeles occasionally have to deal with African-Americans, generally in the form of the police, their servants, and thieves.

So what happened? Brokeback won almost all the critics' awards, but the critics are only trying to select the best movie. In Hollywood, the old guard never embraced Brokeback. It never had a chance to win over the 60-year-old straight white men who compose most of the voting. Giving Brokeback an award is not the kind of message Hollywood wants to send to middle America. Hollywood does not heart homosexuals. The only people in the country who really truly seem to believe that Hollywood is pushing a gay agenda message the throats of Americans are the ultra far-right wing, the Michael Medveds, Ann Coulters, and Gary Baumans.

Think about it. Hollywood's homosexual agenda? Gay actors can't even come out of the closet. Gay executives and agents stay in the closet. There isn't a more closeted business in the country, except, perhaps, the National Football League.

Hollywood's homosexual agenda? Name the great gay-themed movies over the last thirty years? Let's see, Philadelphia (where the gay protagonist is dying) and... well that's it. That's Hollywood's gay agenda over the last thirty years. Two movies.

The movie business is always a decade or so behind the rest of the country. They can't afford to break ground. They are all owned by large conglomerates and have to make profits; thus their movies are always safe, bland, and homogenized. That's their agenda -- to bring in cash.

There's no point in Brokeback fans getting angry and upset, however. In the long run, Brokeback will win -- its esteem will grow and its message will spread. Keep in mind that the Academy seldom selects the best movie of the year for an Oscar. Citizen Kane lost to How Green Was My Valley, Grand Illusion lost to You Can't Take It With You, High Noon lost to The Greatest Show on Earth, and A Place in the Sun and A Streetcar Named Desire lost to An American In Paris. GoodFellas lost to Dances With Wolves. And in one year three of the greatest movies ever made -- All the President's Men, Taxi Driver, and Network -- were all nominated. They lost. To Rocky.
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Old 03-07-2006, 04:09 PM   #377
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Well Crash is also saving the LAPD

from a NY Times article

"I love it," Chief WILLIAM J. BRATTON of the Los Angeles police said about "Crash," which he said he had seen three times. "I show it to my officers. It tells you a lot about L.A."
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Old 03-07-2006, 11:02 PM   #378
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I finally saw Brokeback mountain with my husband today. We were both very, very moved by it and thought it was beautiful. It held some special significance for us, since my husbands brother is gay and had a personal hell growing up in a small town.

Unfortunately we had the same experience with an audience who laughed in the wrong places as some others in this thread have described. In the scene where Alma sees Jack and Ennis from the window, a scene where I almost choked up, first from seeing the desperate kiss which said so much, and then her face, and then... the whole audience errupts in laughing!
We talked about it afterward, and my husband said that maybe the audience (which consisted of mostly women, and women who had brought their significant others, many of them older people) felt embarrased by the kiss and didn't know how to react so they giggled. Maybe that was it, I don't know. I still felt very disturbed by it.
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Old 03-07-2006, 11:06 PM   #379
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I had that laughter happen during that scene too. In fact, I think I joined in it.

I would have to guess that it's a kind of nervous reaction. I certainly didn't find it funny, yet I laughed too. The audience was very well behaved during all the other scenes, so I don't particularly feel that they were there to make light of the film at all.

I kind of think some of that nervous reaction is a means of downplaying our own emotions, which, in this case, was more of shock. After all, public expression of emotions is generally frowned upon, whereas laughter is publically acceptable.

But this is just my hypothesis.

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Old 03-07-2006, 11:14 PM   #380
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
And in one year three of the greatest movies ever made -- All the President's Men, Taxi Driver, and Network -- were all nominated. They lost. To Rocky.
Haha...I just saw "Network" again, since they just released the "Special Edition" release for its 30th anniversary this year. It really deserves to be called one of the greatest movies ever made. But to lose to "Rocky"? Damn...that really shows what a whore to money that Hollywood is, which should be a surprise to nobody.

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Old 03-07-2006, 11:14 PM   #381
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This movie still hasn't made it to movie theaters here in Honduras. Can't wait to watch it. When's the DVD coming out? ?
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Old 03-08-2006, 04:57 AM   #382
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While I really enjoyed the movie, I do have several issues with it. And, my comments aren't meant to take anything away from what this movie has meant to them.
I have trouble accepting this movie as great progress for the queer community. Let's see here: the short story the movie is based on was written by a heterosexual; the script was written by a heterosexual couple; the actors and actresses are heterosexual; the director is heterosexual. Might this movie just be a heterosexual take on homosexuality?
Think about how manly the gay couple is during the movie. They punch each other, wrestle etc. To me this seems to say, that society will accept homosexuals so long as they perform their gender roles
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:30 AM   #383
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Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet
Might this movie just be a heterosexual take on homosexuality?
Indeed. It's "Making Love" (1982) with cowboys and A-list actors. I prefer the works of Gregg Araki myself, but it would still have been nice if the heterosexual homosexual movie won "Best Picture."

"I couldn't make movies like this if I started to worry about what Jerry Falwell is going to have to say about it." - Gregg Araki

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Old 03-08-2006, 09:43 AM   #384
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Quote:
Originally posted by anne_j
I finally saw Brokeback mountain with my husband today. We were both very, very moved by it and thought it was beautiful. It held some special significance for us, since my husbands brother is gay and had a personal hell growing up in a small town.

Unfortunately we had the same experience with an audience who laughed in the wrong places as some others in this thread have described. In the scene where Alma sees Jack and Ennis from the window, a scene where I almost choked up, first from seeing the desperate kiss which said so much, and then her face, and then... the whole audience errupts in laughing!
We talked about it afterward, and my husband said that maybe the audience (which consisted of mostly women, and women who had brought their significant others, many of them older people) felt embarrased by the kiss and didn't know how to react so they giggled. Maybe that was it, I don't know. I still felt very disturbed by it.
That is exactly the scene where gay men behind me burst out laughing. I thought maybe it was because they were of a generation of older gay men who may have had that experience and weren't in touch with the pain they may have caused women who had loved them, but I really don't know. Perhaps as melon suggests it's more of a general nervous response. These particular gay men laughed through the whole movie at inappropriate times. It was not in general the women or straight men in the audience around me who laughed; it was the gay men but only a few particular people.
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:49 AM   #385
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Haha...I just saw "Network" again, since they just released the "Special Edition" release for its 30th anniversary this year. It really deserves to be called one of the greatest movies ever made. But to lose to "Rocky"? Damn...that really shows what a whore to money that Hollywood is, which should be a surprise to nobody.


i think Network is a little over-the-top and shrill, but at least it's provocative.

also to add to the list: Ordinary People beats Raging Bull; Dances With Wolves beats Goodfellas.
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:59 AM   #386
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Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet
I have trouble accepting this movie as great progress for the queer community. Let's see here: the short story the movie is based on was written by a heterosexual; the script was written by a heterosexual couple; the actors and actresses are heterosexual; the director is heterosexual. Might this movie just be a heterosexual take on homosexuality?
Think about how manly the gay couple is during the movie. They punch each other, wrestle etc. To me this seems to say, that society will accept homosexuals so long as they perform their gender roles


i thought E. Annie Proulx was a lesbian. am i wrong?

there are also whispers about Jake's sexuality, but that's just rumor. a more "true" gay movie would probably be "American Beauty" where the writer, producers, and star (Kevin Spacey) are all gay.

actually, i thought the film did a great job of understanding, in an intellectual sense, the subtextuality of the homosexual experience, how things are said not with words but with glances and looks -- notice the scene where Jack is shaving and Ennis is in the background, blurred, and changing his clothes and Jack knows that as much as he wants to look he can't look.

i don't quite get your last comment -- they're cowboys, why wouldn't they fight? i'd say it's more subversive to see very masculine gay cowboys fighting and hunting since it ignores the comfortable (for straight people) conventions of homosexuals being easily identifiable as effete New York intellectuals (Capote) or swishy boyz who love show tunes (Jack from Will & Grace).

i don't think it's a gay movie; i think it's a movie about love, and the tragedy of being in the closet, and the closet is something only gay people have to deal with. so while it is universal in its themes, the exploration of those themes is only enabled by the homosexual affair in the movie.

also, my admiration for the movie is the skill with which the story is told, and the tremendous way in which the film gathers momentum and leads to a devastating conclusion. i found it an artistic expression of the highest quality (see the link a few pages earlier to the NY Review of Books article on the film for a terrific analysis), and the "gay-ness" of the movie to be a secondary concern.

the film has been criticized by the gay community for being too safe, too tasteful, to appealing to the mainstream, but i don't have a problem with this even though i understand it. i would rather be represented by a flim like this than a John Waters movie -- and not that there's anything wrong with John Waters.
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:26 AM   #387
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I didn't interpret the fighting as an attempt to make them look "manly", my thoughts about that were that perhaps they were just both engaged in an internal struggle that manifested in physical fighting with each other. Isn't that what so much of male physical fighting is about, that the men involved are acting out personal internal struggles/issues? I have no idea really, just a thought.

I agree w/ what Irvine says about fighting the stereotypes, but then again the questions are raised if this movie is accepted only because it is really two straight men? Is that some sort of "novelty" aspect of it that makes it somehow more palatable for some people? I don't know about Jake but he is perceived as straight in Hollywood and in the general public. I think it's great if this movie has generated productive discussion, if nothing else that is one step.

I have no idea about Annie Proulx, I never heard that.
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:32 AM   #388
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


i thought E. Annie Proulx was a lesbian. am i wrong?
I thought so, too...although I don't know where I got that from.
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:40 AM   #389
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Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet

I have trouble accepting this movie as great progress for the queer community. Let's see here: the short story the movie is based on was written by a heterosexual; the script was written by a heterosexual couple; the actors and actresses are heterosexual; the director is heterosexual. Might this movie just be a heterosexual take on homosexuality?
Think about how manly the gay couple is during the movie. They punch each other, wrestle etc. To me this seems to say, that society will accept homosexuals so long as they perform their gender roles
But by this logic female characters written by men and male characters written by women aren't credible depictions either.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

actually, i thought the film did a great job of understanding, in an intellectual sense, the subtextuality of the homosexual experience, how things are said not with words but with glances and looks -- notice the scene where Jack is shaving and Ennis is in the background, blurred, and changing his clothes and Jack knows that as much as he wants to look he can't look.

i don't quite get your last comment -- they're cowboys, why wouldn't they fight? i'd say it's more subversive to see very masculine gay cowboys fighting and hunting since it ignores the comfortable (for straight people) conventions of homosexuals being easily identifiable as effete New York intellectuals (Capote) or swishy boyz who love show tunes (Jack from Will & Grace).
Agree completely.
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:44 AM   #390
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It says on her official web site that she was married a few times, not that that even means anything of course.
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