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Old 03-05-2006, 11:56 PM   #331
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Well, knowing the history of Oscar picks, I was not surprised at who won. If BM or "Capote" would have won, social conservatives would have accused Hollywood of having a "homosexual agenda," and, more than anything, Hollywood is afraid of governmental regulation. "Munich," as well, was blacklisted as soon as Israel condemned it. It never had a chance.

"Crash" was really just a safe choice and probably will, in the long run, be as forgotten as "Amadeus."

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Old 03-06-2006, 12:01 AM   #332
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Originally posted by melon
Well, knowing the history of Oscar picks, I was not surprised at who won. If BM or "Capote" would have won, social conservatives would have accused Hollywood of having a "homosexual agenda," and, more than anything, Hollywood is afraid of governmental regulation. "Munich," as well, was blacklisted as soon as Israel condemned it. It never had a chance.


agreed. a win for BM would have been spun as hollywood's insularity; now that it didn't win, it will be spun as more "proof" that it's okay not to like gay people.

though, the smart insight, is that the win for "crash" shines a light on the insular nature of hollywood -- that it's an LA industry, and it has an LA mindset and worldview.

what can you do?
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:05 AM   #333
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Well, at least Ang Lee got an Oscar. I'm so happy for him!
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:05 AM   #334
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At least Brokeback is seen by a lot of people now as the movie which was robbed, and I have no doubt that longterm, it will remain an important step.

What's most tragic is how the pro-Israeli lobby absolutely shat all over Spielberg and his film which is actually one of his better efforts. And even worse is his childish naivete that they couldn't and wouldn't possibly do this to a man who filmed Schindler's list. Wake up and smell the coffee, Steven.
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:09 AM   #335
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Was it just me or was there just a really sombre mood all night despite Jon Stewart?

You're right, Irvine, about the murmering that will happen over the next few days about Brokeback not winning. Maybe it's because most of the Acadamy are older Hollywood and using the western didn't sit well. But splitting directing and best picture often can be viewed as a "tie" in a way.

For what it's worth I don't think Brokeback needed to be validated with best picture. And Crash's examination of intolerance and interdependence has a more far-reaching message to deliver and I'm glad Hollywood acknowledged that.
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:10 AM   #336
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
agreed. a win for BM would have been spun as hollywood's insularity; now that it didn't win, it will be spun as more "proof" that it's okay not to like gay people.

though, the smart insight, is that the win for "crash" shines a light on the insular nature of hollywood -- that it's an LA industry, and it has an LA mindset and worldview.

what can you do?
If you're looking for an excuse to hate gay people, BM winning an Oscar for "Best Picture" isn't going to really change anything. Consider that the consolation prize here.

The fact that BM ended up massively successful, both critically and with audiences, compared to Hollywood's first (and last) foray into gay drama, "Making Love" (1982), is probably going to be enough to spawn a few crappy $15 million imitators before Hollywood runs gay cinema into the ground again.

The key to long-term progress in gay film is to just keep on making films in the independent realm. As a minority, we're really always going to be nothing more than a passing fancy for fickle heterosexual groupthink, just like black and Latino film before us.

Melon
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:16 AM   #337
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Originally posted by melon


If you're looking for an excuse to hate gay people, BM winning an Oscar for "Best Picture" isn't going to really change anything. Consider that the consolation prize here.


i don't think the win, or lack of win, says anything at all about whether or not the mainstream loves or hates gay people.

what i do think will happen is that the lack of the win will be spun as evidence of hatred for gay people (hate being a strong word, but that's the idea).

that's what bothers me.
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:27 AM   #338
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Originally posted by Irvine511

i am upset at the "crash" win. i simply didn't think it was that strong a movie -- sure, great ideas, and wonderful intentions, but i simply can't see it as a great film. i thought "munich" was better. i thought "capote" was better. i certainly thought "brokeback" was better.
I agree. I really liked Crash but it was my least favorite of the bunch. Best movie & best director should go hand-in-hand.
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:34 AM   #339
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Well, knowing the history of Oscar picks, I was not surprised at who won. If BM or "Capote" would have won, social conservatives would have accused Hollywood of having a "homosexual agenda," and, more than anything, Hollywood is afraid of governmental regulation. "Munich," as well, was blacklisted as soon as Israel condemned it. It never had a chance.

"Crash" was really just a safe choice and probably will, in the long run, be as forgotten as "Amadeus."

Melon
While I agree with you completely regarding the "safe choice" aspect (I had a feeling that would happen - to have a "gay film" win as Best Picture wouldn't have gone over well in a country that actually debates the logic of evolution), I disagree about your comment regarding "Amadeus". That film did rather well at the time and I feel is regarded as most Best Picture films are, that aren't "super" blockbusters (ala "Return of the King" or "Titanic").

That's the odd thing about film or books. People see a book or movie once. If they really enjoy it, they may see it a few times or read it a few times, but music - a person may listen to one song hundreds of times. A song can bring a person back to a certain time and place. Only music seems to transcend that "here and now" aspect (even if it's just silly pop music). So I don't feel "Amadeus" is regarded or disregarded any more than any other Best Picture.

Had BM won I think it would have been good for this country, but I'm not sure it would have closed the gap between ultra-liberal Hollywood and the rest of the U.S. Furthermore, I think by using that excuse of "safe choice", it discredits "Crash", which is inaccurate.
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:45 AM   #340
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all this talk about the academy being afraid to vote for BM is not warranted.

they gave best actor to Hoffman for playing a gay person

and Brokeback did win several awards.
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Old 03-06-2006, 04:09 AM   #341
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What upsets me the most is the fact that Munich was robbed. Everyone talks about Brokeback being the promotion of gay art. Munich was actually written by a gay writer - Tony Kushner.
Everything tonight felt so calculated: give Clooney the Oscar so you don't have to worry about not giving him any other Oscar (he even alluded to this); give Witherspoon the Oscar even though Felicity delievered a far better performance since her movie was about being a transgender; give Crash the Oscar even though BM and Munich were both better movies because it's not controversial.
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Old 03-06-2006, 07:53 AM   #342
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all this talk about the academy being afraid to vote for BM is not warranted.

they gave best actor to Hoffman for playing a gay person

and Brokeback did win several awards.


i don't think the academy was "afraid" -- i think it is going to be spun as "the academy was afraid" ...
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:01 AM   #343
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Well I predicted it correctly

I think it's a shame, from what I remember of Crash it was like a TV movie and as subtle as a sledgehammer. The quiet subtlety of Brokeback was one of my favorite things about it-for me the sexiest scene in that movie was when they first saw each other, just for one example .I think there was a Brokeback "backlash" of sorts that had nothing to do with the homosexual theme. Ang Lee deserved that award 100 percent, that would have been true robbery if he didn't win. I think the performances were so subtle that some people didn't appreciate them as much, and they did have some great competition. Also the Oscars are very political as we all know, and so much is involved other than the actual merits of the movies and the performances.

When all is said and done Brokeback Mountain will always be remembered whereas Crash will be a footnote. Anyone who uses this as a way of saying that America is "not ready" to embrace a movie like Brokeback Mountain just has an agenda and is full of crap.
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:15 AM   #344
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AP

The post-Oscars debate: Why Brokeback lost

By Arthur Spiegelman Mon Mar 6, 3:26 AM ET

The Oscars opened the closet door to gay-themed films but shut it almost as quickly.

"Brokeback Mountain," the much-ballyhooed favorite about two gay cowboys, won best director for Ang Lee on Sunday but stunningly lost the best picture prize to race drama "Crash." Additionally Philip Seymour Hoffman won best actor for playing gay novelist Truman Capote in "Capote."

The victory for "Crash" suggested Oscar voters were more comfortable with a tale that exploited the seamy underbelly of racial conflict in contemporary Los Angeles than with a heartbreaking tale of love between two married men.

"Perhaps the truth really is, Americans don't want cowboys to be gay," said Larry McMurtry, 69, who shared an Oscar for best adapted screenplay with Diana Ossana for "Brokeback."

No overtly gay love story has ever won a best picture award and, as of Monday morning, none has. The big question going into the Oscars was whether Hollywood, often in the forefront of social issues, would break another taboo.

"Film buffs and the politically minded will be arguing this morning about whether the Best Picture Oscar to 'Crash' was really for the film's merit or just a cop-out by the Motion Picture Academy so it wouldn't have to give the prize to 'Brokeback Mountain,"' said Washington Post critic Tom Shales.

Los Angeles Times critic Kenneth Turan saw "Brokeback's" failure as a sign that Hollywood was not yet ready to grant the topic of homosexual love mainstream respectability.

"Despite all the magazine covers it graced, despite all the red-state theaters it made good money in, despite (or maybe because of) all the jokes late-night talk show hosts made about it, you could not take the pulse of the industry without realizing that 'Brokeback Mountain' made a number of people distinctly uncomfortable," he said, adding:

"So for people who were discomfited by 'Brokeback Mountain' but wanted to be able to look themselves in the mirror and feel like they were good, productive liberals, 'Crash' provided the perfect safe harbor."


"Brokeback" led the field with eight nominations and ended up with three prizes, also winning for original score.
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:46 AM   #345
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Brokeback Mountain director Ang Lee spoke up in support of his Best Actor nominee Heath Ledger, who lost the Best Actor prize to Hoffman. Calling Ledger's performance "not only remarkable, but a miracle," Lee said, "Some people tell me he reminds them of a young Brando."

Asked if he thought Brokeback was bypassed as Best Picture because of its gay theme, Lee said: "I don't know. I really don't know. In (terms of) box office, it did the best of all five movies. But I really don't know."
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