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Old 01-31-2006, 07:31 PM   #286
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Thanks, MrsSpringsteen.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:14 AM   #287
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http://www.mightymcpilgrim.com/films...emac-large.mov
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Old 02-01-2006, 06:03 PM   #288
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this paper is such a rag but this is good for a giggle

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006050298,00.html
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Old 02-01-2006, 06:06 PM   #289
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
this paper is such a rag but this is good for a giggle

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006050298,00.html


please let it be true, please ... please ... please ...
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Old 02-01-2006, 06:13 PM   #290
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Originally posted by LadyRhia



Good for her! Things like that really gives me hope.
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This will be of little consolation but just wanted to share that one of my colleagues, a 65 year old woman, has seen Brokeback Mountain twice and announced this morning that if the man she is dating will not accompany her to her third viewing, and he says he will not, then she is going to break up with him because she doesn't want to be with someone "that insecure and close-minded." This was the last straw, apparently. So it is impacting people in some surprising ways.
I saw the movie last night and thought it was ok. A little dull in the begining. The acting by michelle williams was great as was Heath.

My point is though people call other homophobics or biggots because they dont want to see the film or believe in that type of life. You should not judge someone by that. If that is their opinion let it be you have yours.
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Old 02-01-2006, 06:25 PM   #291
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My point is though people call other homophobics or biggots because they dont want to see the film or believe in that type of life. You should not judge someone by that. If that is their opinion let it be you have yours.


no.

if you don't want to see the film, whatever. it's just a movie. see it if you want. or don't. i think it's a great film, but i know gay people who didn't like it all that much, or thought it a disappointment.

however, the statement "believe in that type of life" is logically absurd. homosexuality exists. period. it is a naturally occurring abnormality in human sexuality. period. it makes no sense to say you don't believe in it, or that it's wrong -- it's like saying you don't believe in red hair or left handedness.

it's also logically absurd to say that we must tolerate the intolerate. while everyone is entitled to their opinion -- and while i respect everyone's right to an opinion, even if i don't respect the opinion itself -- no one is entitled to discriminate against other people on the basis of an opinion. when someone does that, it is homophobic, and it would be remiss for anyone not to point this out -- whether it be homophobia, or sexism, or racism, or anti-semitism, or islamophobia, or whatever else.
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Old 02-01-2006, 06:27 PM   #292
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Originally posted by Irvine511

it's also logically absurd to say that we must tolerate the intolerate. while everyone is entitled to their opinion -- and while i respect everyone's right to an opinion, even if i don't respect the opinion itself -- no one is entitled to discriminate against other people on the basis of an opinion.
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Old 02-01-2006, 06:30 PM   #293
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Originally posted by Irvine511


please let it be true, please ... please ... please ...
I have to second this request.

Yeah, I'm a perv.
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Old 02-02-2006, 08:15 AM   #294
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Originally posted by Irvine511

please let it be true, please ... please ... please ...
I nominate Orlando Bloom as costar/love interest
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:20 PM   #295
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ok.
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Old 02-06-2006, 06:52 PM   #296
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This is something I've been wondering about, honestly even in posting some things I've posted in this thread. I apologize if I offended anyone, I would never want to do that.


Are the jokes about the gay cowboy movie harmless fun or homophobic?

The Associated Press
Updated: 6:14 p.m. ET Feb. 6, 2006

NEW YORK - Some of the “Top Ten Signs You’re a Gay Cowboy,” courtesy of David Letterman:
# You enjoy ridin’, ropin’ and redecoratin’.
# Instead of a saloon, you prefer a salon.
# Native Americans refer to you as “Dances With Men.”

Is the bottomless font of “Brokeback Mountain” humor — late-night monologues, fake Internet movie trailers, movie poster imitations — harmless and fun, or insulting?

Most gay groups find it fairly benign, and note that in any case, the movie’s overwhelming publicity can only be a good thing.

“Some of the humor may be insensitive, but even that has spurred positive conversation,” says Susanne Salkind of the Human Rights Campaign, the largest national gay rights group.

But Matt Foreman, executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, says he’s sick of it: “It may be funny, but there is a real element of homophobia. It’s making jabs about sex between gay men.”

Jay Leno made at least 15 “Brokeback” jokes in January. Many were references to gay sex. One that wasn’t: “The cold weather continues to spread across the United States. In fact, down south it was so cold people were shaking like Jerry Falwell watching “Brokeback Mountain.”

The Internet is saturated with “Brokeback” imitations. One of the best is a fake movie trailer called “Brokeback to the Future,” which uses deftly edited shots from Michael J. Fox’s “Back to the Future” to make it look like Marty McFly and that wacky Dr. Emmett Brown are falling in love. There’s also “Top Gun 2: Brokeback Squadron,” with Tom Cruise and Val Kilmer.

And then there are the poster imitations. Like “Kickback Mountain,” with the faces of indicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff and Rep. Tom DeLay superimposed over those of Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal.

Andy Borowitz, author of The Borowitz Report.com, says people get insulted by everything — “so the safest bet is to make jokes about everything.”

Besides, he says, “I run into so few gay cowboys in Manhattan. So I think if I’m at a cocktail party and I make a good ‘Brokeback’ joke, I’ll be safe. I guess if I were on a ranch and there were a few strong, silent types, I’d be careful.”

Of the movie’s iconic line, “I wish I knew how to quit you,” Borowitz says he’s “hoping it’ll become the new ‘Show me the money.”’

Paul Rudnick, a playwright and comedy writer, sees the humor as coming from heterosexual men who are both fascinated and very uncomfortable with the content of the movie.

“They’re not quite sure what to make of it,” says Rudnick, who is gay. “They know their wives are going to fall in love with the movie, and with the men in it.”

Rudnick hasn’t written about “Brokeback” yet — but only because he’d have to find something really original.

“Just joking about a gay cowboy isn’t enough anymore,” Rudnick says. “If you’re going to joke about it now, you really have to be up to the challenge.”
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Old 02-06-2006, 07:31 PM   #297
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Well, "Brokeback to the Future" was made at my very gay alma mater, Emerson College. I really would not realistically believe that the creators of that spoof are homophobic. In fact, they're probably making fun of "Back to the Future" more than "Brokeback Mountain." Same goes with "Top Gun."

With comedians, I tend to look at their larger body of work to see if I believe their intentions are good or ill-natured. Most of these comedians do a great job of walking the fine line between humor and tastelessness.

Anyway, any highly talked about / hyped film is going to get jokes made about it. Call it a testament to the film's success that it actually gets pop culture references. Many filmmakers would kill for that.

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Old 02-06-2006, 08:02 PM   #298
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this is, hands-down, the best review/essay on the film i have yet encountered. PLEASE do NOT read it if you haven't seen the film -- major, major spoilers.

money quote:[q]But those lovers, however star-crossed, never despise themselves. As Brokeback makes so eloquently clear, the tragedy of gay lovers like Ennis and Jack is only secondarily a social tragedy. Their tragedy, which starts well before the lovers ever meet, is primarily a psychological tragedy, a tragedy of psyches scarred from the very first stirrings of an erotic desire which the world around them—beginning in earliest childhood, in the bosom of their families, as Ennis's grim flashback is meant to remind us—represents as unhealthy, hateful, and deadly. Romeo and Juliet (and we) may hate the outside world, the Capulets and Montagues, may hate Verona; but because they learn to hate homosexuality so early on, young people with homosexual impulses more often than not grow up hating themselves: they believe that there's something wrong with themselves long before they can understand that there's something wrong with society. This is the truth that Heath Ledger, who plays Ennis, clearly understands—"Fear was instilled in him at an early age, and so the way he loved disgusted him," the actor has said—and that is so brilliantly conveyed by his deservedly acclaimed performance.
[/q]



read the whole thing: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18712
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:03 PM   #299
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Originally posted by Irvine511
because they learn to hate homosexuality so early on, young people with homosexual impulses more often than not grow up hating themselves: they believe that there's something wrong with themselves long before they can understand that there's something wrong with society.
A far uglier wound than any that could be externally afflicted.

Do you think that ending discrimination per se against homosexuals will be all that it takes to end this cycle? I wonder if here, your analogies to redheadedness or left-handedness can really hold up. A child with these traits (or for that matter, who belongs to some ethnic minority) learns very early on that, while a bit of unpleasantness and stigma may be headed their way over it, nonetheless they themselves are not at fault, since they can do nothing about what they were born into. But surely it is much harder to achieve this self-affirmation when the difference in question does not become apparent to you until much later, at a time in your life when wanting to share in the "universal", archetypal struggles common to all your peers is of paramount importance.

I *hate* to even consider that such pain might always be the fate of people who are born gay, yet when heterosexuality is constantly trumpeted in every last cultural arena as normative by virtue of prevalence, I have to wonder if the mere absence of discrimination (and presence of occasional affirming messages) would be enough to guard against it. I don't know--perhaps in such a changed environment, it would be no worse than the pain and self-reproach most heterosexuals feel at failing to live up to the same archetypes. But I am skeptical. The distinctly modern, Western ideal of romantic love between two individuals is so profoundly steeped in parallel ideals of masculinity and femininity, particularly when it comes to articulating the connection between the longing for sex and the longing for love. This can be surmounted, yes, of course...but can it be surmounted without a surplus of pain on the way?

I really, really hope this doesn't sound crushingly pessimistic or cynical...I am worried about it as much as a parent and mentor to young people as anything else.
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Old 02-06-2006, 11:35 PM   #300
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Originally posted by yolland

A far uglier wound than any that could be externally afflicted.

Do you think that ending discrimination per se against homosexuals will be all that it takes to end this cycle? I wonder if here, your analogies to redheadedness or left-handedness can really hold up.


i think you misunderstand how i use the red head/left handed analogy. i only use that in response to whenever someone brings up the issue of not "agreeing" or "believing" in homosexuality. that's simply a logically abusurd statement. homosexuality, like having red hair or being left handed, is abnormal. but it is a naturally occuring abnormality, as innate to human variety and diversity as anything else.

you are absolutely right that, in practice, a child (or teenager) learns that the consequences to this specific abnormality are often terrible -- you could lose your friends, your family, even your life, and this is something that will never happen to a red head or a left handed person.

ideally, we'd understanding homosexuality as something exactly akin to red hair -- something different, something that highlights, and therefore makes beautiful, both human commonalities and differences, and is worthy of celebration and affirmation by virtue of its innte human-ness.


[q]I *hate* to even consider that such pain might always be the fate of people who are born gay, yet when heterosexuality is constantly trumpeted in every last cultural arena as normative by virtue of prevalence, I have to wonder if the mere absence of discrimination (and presence of occasional affirming messages) would be enough to guard against it.[/q]

just today, i flipped passed bill o'reilly who was interviewing bill maher. i watched, because i like maher, and it struck me as simply nasty when o'reilly referred to brokeback as "the pup tent boys" and how he was actually "scared" to see the film (and then talked about how the oscars are just a liberal circle jerk over agenda films).

when you're confronted with this every single day, a consistent and casual dismissal of something that you have struggled with for years to understand and accept (and, as is nearly the case with every gay person i've met, including myself, created suicidal thoughts and feelings of complete and utter worthlessness, that all your good characteristics are canceled out by this one abnormality), it genuinely hurts. it genuinely makes you angry. it genuinely creates self-hate -- and i believe that it is self-hate and self-loathing that is at the root with the myriad social problems i see in the gay community, from risky behavior to drug abuse to setting the bar low for yourself in all aspects of human behavior, from the mundane to the practical (the flip side, of course, is the overcompensation, but that's a big digression).

to combat this, i think what needs to happen is first the understanding of homosexuality as entirely natural; second, many heterosexuals need to find someone else to pick on and belittle; and third, gay relationships need to be celebrated and sanctioned. this is why i'm such a marriage equality proponant. i don't know if i'll ever get married. it's really not on my mind right now, i don't know if i were straight i'd necessarily want to get married. but what marriage does is provide structure, meaning, and purpose to gay dating (as it does to hetero dating) and it ultimately validates and approves, on a social level, gay relationships.

which is why it absolutely baffles me the hostility to gay marriage. good lord, gay men in particular are called promiscuous, and far worse, and then the same people who call them these names turn around and deny gay people the very tools that might help them rectify the stereotypes that are used as rational for discrimination.

i mean, honestly, what the fuck?!?!?!


Quote:
I really, really hope this doesn't sound crushingly pessimistic or cynical...I am worried about it as much as a parent and mentor to young people as anything else.

all we need are more parents and teachers like you. at least to start.

like you, i don't think homoseuxal relationships, on the whole, will ever achieve the same status as heterosexual relationships (on an individual level, however, that could be true, and there are people on this board who are straight who have had powerful examples of highly successful homosexual relationships in their lives). it does make sense that a procreative biological union should be celebrated. it does make sense that the vast majority of the population is straight. but i do think we can get to a point where, while no one might choose to be gay, and no parent would probably wish for their child to be gay, we might see a "no big deal" attitude. sort of an, oh well -- like when a child might choose to marry someone of a different religion, perhaps. not ideal, but hey, so long as everyone is happy.

it starts, though, with understanding gay relationships as being made of the same stuff as hetero relationships. all the joy, sadness, stupidity, foolishness, romance, heartbreak, and affirmation ... we feel it too.

and this is why "brokeback" -- independent of it's considerable cinematic merits -- is such a landmark.
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