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Old 01-24-2006, 02:05 PM   #256
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Originally posted by Irvine511
and i do check my behavior. i don't hold hands while walking down the street, not even in the majority gay streets in East Dupont and Logan Circle. only in front of close friends, and usually after alcohol has been consumed, will i show any sort of physical affection towards my BF.

i tell myself that i'm just trying to be polite.
to some extent, you are--though the component of fear underlying your reserve obviously makes it different. I have to admit that I personally am enough of a prude or something like that, that I find zealous PDA distasteful coming from ANYONE. But of course I'm not talking holding hands, casually tossing an arm around your partner or the like. We have a few friends who are gay couples, and it's important to us that they know that for them to put an arm around one another when they're in our house is just fine. We don't want them to feel like they should be guarded around our kids or something.
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interesting you bring up the "unspeakably awful" -- there's a great discussion to be had between the historical basis for anti-semitism and the historical basis for homophobia as being cut from the same cloth (clannish, feared to be secretly powerful, able to blend in and "pass," both have committed sins against the Christian heirarchy yet live quietly among them) as well as being victims of an "unspeakably awful event" (holocaust/AIDS) that has drawn attention to both the group and to the discriminatory conditions that surround the group.
Don't know about the AIDS/Holocaust analogy, since the latter was directly caused by the contempt and hatred of others, and as far as Christian hierarchy goes I daresay there are more gays among them than Jews , but yes, much of the rest of it applies to both. What I just can't ever get around--which is also in some measure common to both--is this visceral disgust and ability to see other human beings as "vermin." Paranoia about the all-powerful gay lobby or Jewish bankers you can defuse to some point--when people start throwing in the "filthy, dirty Jews/fags" kind of talk on the other hand, that's a whole other order of enemy entirely.
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Old 01-24-2006, 02:11 PM   #257
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Don't know about the AIDS/Holocaust analogy, since the latter was directly caused by the contempt and hatred of others, and as far as Christian hierarchy goes I daresay there are more gays among them than Jews , but yes, much of the rest of it applies to both. What I just can't ever get around--which is also in some measure common to both--is this visceral disgust and ability to see other human beings as "vermin." Paranoia about the all-powerful gay lobby or Jewish bankers you can defuse to some point--when people start throwing in the "filthy, dirty Jews/fags" kind of talk on the other hand, that's a whole other order of enemy entirely.


it's a far from perfect analogy, but there are parallels, less in their genesis and more in their aftermath.

and i was poorly worded about the Christian heirarchy -- what i meant was that there were jews living quite successfully in Christian countries.

but its a long topic, and i have a meeting in 7 minutes. i will try and expound on it later in the day, but in a short sentence, mass death lets the world know that, hey, we have a problem here.
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Old 01-24-2006, 03:08 PM   #258
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There have been a couple of references to Larry David's NYT op-ed piece but I only just now read the actual piece. So here it is for some comic relief:

Op-Ed Contributor
Cowboys Are My Weakness

By LARRY DAVID
Published: January 1, 2006

SOMEBODY had to write this, and it might as well be me. I haven't seen "Brokeback Mountain," nor do I have any intention of seeing it. In fact, cowboys would have to lasso me, drag me into the theater and tie me to the seat, and even then I would make every effort to close my eyes and cover my ears.

And I love gay people. Hey, I've got gay acquaintances. Good acquaintances, who know they can call me anytime if they had my phone number. I'm for gay marriage, gay divorce, gay this and gay that. I just don't want to watch two straight men, alone on the prairie, fall in love and kiss and hug and hold hands and whatnot. That's all.

Is that so terrible? Does that mean I'm homophobic? And if I am, well, then that's too bad. Because you can call me any name you want, but I'm still not going to that movie.

To my surprise, I have some straight friends who've not only seen the movie but liked it. "One of the best love stories ever," one gushed. Another went on, "Oh, my God, you completely forget that it's two men. You in particular will love it."

"Why me?"

"You just will, trust me."

But I don't trust him. If two cowboys, male icons who are 100 percent all-man, can succumb, what chance to do I have, half- to a quarter of a man, depending on whom I'm with at the time? I'm a very susceptible person, easily influenced, a natural-born follower with no sales-resistance. When I walk into a store, clerks wrestle one another trying to get to me first. My wife won't let me watch infomercials because of all the junk I've ordered that's now piled up in the garage. My medicine cabinet is filled with vitamins and bald cures.

So who's to say I won't become enamored with the whole gay business? Let's face it, there is some appeal there. I know I've always gotten along great with men. I never once paced in my room rehearsing what to say before asking a guy if he wanted to go to the movies. And I generally don't pay for men, which of course is their most appealing attribute.

And gay guys always seem like they're having a great time. At the Christmas party I went to, they were the only ones who sang. Boy that looked like fun. I would love to sing, but this weighty, self-conscious heterosexuality I'm saddled with won't permit it.

I just know if I saw that movie, the voice inside my head that delights in torturing me would have a field day. "You like those cowboys, don't you? They're kind of cute. Go ahead, admit it, they're cute. You can't fool me, gay man. Go ahead, stop fighting it. You're gay! You're gay!"

Not that there's anything wrong with it.
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Old 01-25-2006, 01:29 AM   #259
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Originally posted by Irvine511



but, still, it does bother me that i disgust people. i know it's not my issue, but it still fills me, in my more vulnerable moments, with ... not quite self-loathing, but something akin to that. almost like i need to apologize.

People with their own insecurities and issues have a way to make us feel bad about ourselves at times...but at the end of the day it doesnt really matter what they think.

For every person like that there is a person who doesnt find you disgusting and values you for the person you are not the person they think you should be.
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Old 01-25-2006, 01:33 AM   #260
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This will be of little consolation but just wanted to share that one of my colleagues, a 65 year old woman, has seen Brokeback Mountain twice and announced this morning that if the man she is dating will not accompany her to her third viewing, and he says he will not, then she is going to break up with him because she doesn't want to be with someone "that insecure and close-minded." This was the last straw, apparently. So it is impacting people in some surprising ways.

Good for her! Things like that really gives me hope.
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Old 01-25-2006, 07:09 AM   #261
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In regards to what that Parshall person said...first off, trying to bring up something like polygamy and put it in the same ballpark as homosexuality is just...ergh. Second,

Quote:
And would it really be about getting us to look at polygamy and accepting it or would it really be about an effective director who knows how to use a particular art form?
Or, you know, it could just be about a situation that's taking place. Whether or not one wishes to accept what's going on is entirely up to them. I'm guessing that's the aim the director of "Brokeback Mountain" went for-he just made a movie about a situation between two men. It's still up to each individual person to decide for themselves whether or not they want to accept what's going on.

Also...

Quote:
KING: Don't you think you might learn more by looking at it rather than looking away from it?

PARSHALL: No, I don't think so.
They don't think so? Pardon me, but...how else are you supposed to learn about something?

Bah. Anywho, for Irvine.

Angela
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:02 AM   #262
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http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/01/barebacktopgun.html
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:26 AM   #263
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Did anyone else see last night's Daily Show with the report on the gay rodeo and the interview with the 'real' cowboy? I love how they always make their point with humor and I am constantly amazed that they still get these people to talk to them. Have they never seen the show? Don't they know when they are being mocked?

Anyway - if you didn't catch the episode it will replay tonight at 7pm or 8pm, I think.
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:34 AM   #264
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http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/01/barebacktopgun.html
How DARE you!

You post this piece that mocks the most un-Gay manliest man in the history of manly men in the exclusively heterosexual field of the performing arts, a man who in a different world would have been a priest (no homosexual urges in anyone who choses a life with the Church), a man who has sired a Hubbardly child with the vessel Katie Holmes who must have concieved before they met (the power of will and being an OTVII enables this btw). A man who by definition you cannot be gay and be a scientologist it's methods simply cure the mental abberations that cause deviant behaviour.

You know who will you go after next in these packs of lies? The late Rock Hudson or married man John Travolta!
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:51 AM   #265
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http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/01/barebacktopgun.html


genius.
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Old 01-25-2006, 11:13 AM   #266
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It hasn´t gotten to Honduras yet but I can´t wait.

Homophobia is still at large here at such a rate I don´t it will even make it to theaters. Might have to wait to rent it on DVD.

But I´ll let you know what the reaction around here is.
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:34 PM   #267
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Thanks for posting this!
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Old 01-26-2006, 08:14 AM   #268
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MANHATTAN, Kan AP. - One student wants to marry him, another is calling him "a total tool." Jeremy Parker is getting a mixed reaction to his asking President Bush if he'd seen "Brokeback Mountain."

The Kansas State University Campus Forum is full of reaction. One student wrote to Parker "you're my hero." Another "thanks" Parker for "embarrassing" their school. And another student wrote "I tried to imagine a bigger waste of space than Jeremy Parker. I got nothing."

Parker told "Inside Edition" that he asked the question because the ones that came before his were "boring" and he wanted to keep the president "on his toes."
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Old 01-26-2006, 05:32 PM   #269
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Check out today's USA TOday.....my fave (OMG!!!!) is the "Buckbeak Mountain" (Harry Potter) spoof of the BBM now-famous BBM poster, with Snape and Lupin looking warm and fuzzy....
Does anyone have alink to the HP spoof????
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Old 01-27-2006, 08:29 AM   #270
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the cast is going to be on Oprah today
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