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Old 01-23-2006, 09:27 AM   #241
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from Time Magazine

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...1805-1,00.html

The film has managed to carry the luster of its daring, as one of the rare Hollywood movies that are frank about gay sexuality, without provoking the sustained ire of social and political conservatives. Says Jack Foley, Focus' chief of distribution: "America didn't resist the film for a second." Well, maybe for a second: the other night on CNN's Larry King when conservative radio host Janet Parshall said, "What we're witnessing, Larry, is the homosexualizing of America." And there are plenty of liberal straight guys like Seinfeld co-creator Larry David, who wrote a puckish Op-Ed in the New York Times, confessing, "Cowboys would have to lasso me, drag me into the theater and tie me to the seat" for him to see it. But most of those who disapprove of Brokeback--or think they would if they saw it--have curbed their outrage. They believe it's a serious, sensitive movie.

.................And, of course, the movie's stars are all hetero. "No one paying attention will fail to know that Heath Ledger just had a child by the woman who plays his wife," says Larry Gross, director of the U.S.C. Annenberg School for Communication, "and that Jake has been dating Kirsten Dunst." But then, every macho Hollywood star is straight--or must pretend to be. "The film says it's terrible that you couldn't be openly gay as a sheepherder in Montana in the '60s, but you can't be openly gay as a successful young actor in Hollywood in 2006," says Gross. "When an A-list romantic action lead comes out, that will be a Jackie Robinson moment."

So how much of a cultural shift does Brokeback represent? "This is the first sort of red-state gay movie," says producer Craig Zadan, who won a Best Picture Oscar for Chicago three years ago. "It's a movie with macho, masculine, acting-straight guys on horses, and it turns out to be a gay love story."

Schamus disputes that a chasm exists between big cities and God's country. "This whole red-state-- blue-state thing is absurd," he says. "The film has performed amazingly in Little Rock, Birmingham and Fort Worth, Texas. The fact is, Americans are Americans. There may be places where their politics in the aggregate tilt one way or the other, but do you cross a state boundary and turn into some other kind of animal? No. Americans talk to each other. Americans are listening to each other. And Brokeback is proving it."
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Old 01-23-2006, 03:45 PM   #242
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Quote:
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conservative radio host Janet Parshall said, "What we're witnessing, Larry, is the homosexualizing of America."
wtf?
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Old 01-23-2006, 03:48 PM   #243
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Originally posted by martha


wtf?


don't worry, it only makes sense to them.
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Old 01-23-2006, 04:12 PM   #244
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The sinister siren song of a great script, strong acting and all that lush cinematography tempted them to eat the apple and savor its forbidden fruits. You know, empathy, recognition of a common humanity, dark stuff like that.
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Old 01-23-2006, 04:14 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
conservative radio host Janet Parshall said, "What we're witnessing, Larry, is the homosexualizing of America."
I saw that interview. She was constantly using false arguments to support her opinion. You know if you just don't like gay people, then just be honest about your opinion instead of trying to make it seem like God is on your side.

Larry pointed out that they were all sinners, but she was essentially arguing that her sins were less evil. Called her on her biogtry, but she kept going.
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Old 01-23-2006, 04:19 PM   #246
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Why are you scratching your head martha, America is being homosexualized! We must all run for cover!

Another interesting article from Newsweek

I wonder how many men who post in FYM have seen the movie, and what the true reasons are for men who don't want to see it. I HATE that term "chick flick" too..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10930877/site/newsweek/

"Mattis, 24, isn’t sure what all the fuss is about. “I don’t know why people really want it to come here,” he says. “I don’t like the drama-romances anyway, and I really don’t want to see one with two gay men.” But Mattis and the rest of the usually coveted audience of guys 18-34 years old aren’t the target this time. From early on, Focus said the film was aiming for the same female fans with upscale tastes who loved “Titanic.”

Ann Eichler, a 63-year-old grandmother in Scottsdale, Ariz., is smack in the middle of that demographic. She went to a 12:30 p.m. weekday showing without her husband and found the theater packed with women. “I think men are so uncomfortable with this kind of thing, even if they are very liberal-minded,” explains Eichler, who says she was enormously moved by the film. She admits she was “a little worried about a seeing a homosexual love scene, but I found I could handle it.” And she adds that her husband was kind of “don’t ask, don’t tell” about her seeing the movie. “He knows it’s out there, he just doesn’t want to talk about it.”

Eichler’s husband is not alone. On personal blogs, around water coolers and even on Web sites like WebMD.com, women are talking about trying to get their husbands to go see it and debating whether not wanting to see it makes you a homophobe--“no” say many heterosexual men, they just don’t want to see chick flicks. “I didn’t even want to see ‘Cold Mountain',” protests one. "
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Old 01-23-2006, 04:26 PM   #247
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from the Larry King transcript

Janet Parshall, did you see the film? If so, what did you think of it?

JANET PARSHALL, RADIO HOST "JANET PARSHALL'S AMERICA": No, I didn't see the film and I'm not at all surprised that out of seven nominations Brokeback walked away with four and some might say that's an indication of what the Oscar ceremonies might look like later on this year.

KING: Why would you comment on it if you haven't seen it?

PARSHALL: Well, I'm interested in all of the buzz around the film. I'm not the least bit surprised that we're hearing so much chatter. After all, I think what we're witnessing, Larry, is the homosexualizing of America.

We've got the Book of Daniel with a gay theme and we've got Will and Grace with a gay theme and we're trying to get people, like me, people of faith who happen to believe that any sex outside of marriage, heterosexual or homosexual marriage, is wrong to try to somehow tolerate and even more importantly accept that lifestyle.

KING: Don't you think you might learn more by looking at it rather than looking away from it?

PARSHALL: No, I don't think so. In fact, let me tell you something about Ang Lee. He's a brilliant film director. I'll bet if he found a really good property dealing with, oh let's say polygamy, I bet he could tap into the human heart. I bet he could make people cry. I bet he could pull away the kinds of emotions that people allegedly get after they walk out of this film.

And would it really be about getting us to look at polygamy and accepting it or would it really be about an effective director who knows how to use a particular art form?

KING: Chad Allen, did you see it?

CHAD ALLEN, OPENLY GAY ACTOR: I did absolutely and it's an incredible film and I think it's being criticized across the board by conservative critics and by liberal critics alike as a great film. That's exactly what it is. It's a love story.

KING: Many conservative critics love it.

ALLEN: Love it. Sometimes begrudgingly they love it because they'll say "You know what, I may not even agree that it's good for America but I think it's a great film." You know Ang Lee is not a gay director. He took this film and I read a great article where he said he took this film because he wanted to find a new angle from which to tell the love story.

It's been told so many times he wanted to find a new way to tell it. This is one way that it hadn't been told yet and he dove into it. I think it's an incredible feature.

KING: There's no explicit sex in it.

ALLEN: No.

KING: In fact, the only come on scene is between a man and a woman at the rodeo.

ALLEN: Well, I mean there is -- there is a fantastic shocking sex scene that happens right off the bat but at least you know where he takes it.

KING: Yes, but it's not explicit.

ALLEN: And in fact it took me and what happened with me was I saw it and I went, oh no, I hope they're not going to make a movie about that. And then you watch these two guys fall in love and that's where the story is.

KING: Yes. Reverend Mohler, have you seen it?

R. ALBERT MOHLER, JR., PRESIDENT, SOUTHERN BAPTIST THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: I've not seen the movie, Larry, and that's a matter of decision, not just a matter of chance. Like others, I don't feel any need to see the movie. I have read the screenplay. I know the short story and, of course, I know what the movie is about because it's out there so much in the media.

That's the main issue. I am not a movie critic. I really can't speak to the cinematography. I can just speak to what the cultural meaning of this film is and why I see it as a great challenge.

KING: Didn't the short story move you at all?

MOHLER: Well, no, actually...

KING: For example, you're a reverend, didn't you have some compassion for what happened to the younger one of the two?

MOHLER: Well, absolutely. You have to feel compassion when anyone feels pain and when anyone goes through that kind of struggle. But, you know, I really am horrified to think about where that story ended.
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Old 01-23-2006, 11:55 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


don't worry, it only makes sense to them.


So I may not get to go out with k. d. lang?
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Old 01-24-2006, 08:01 AM   #249
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Did anyone see on the news last night, Bush had that unscripted town meeting thing and a guy asked him if he had seen Brokeback Mountain- he seemed rather uncomfortable and sort of giggled

from Drudge Report

BUSH: NO 'BROKEBACK'
Mon Jan 23 2006 17:09:44 ET

President Bush has so far skipped BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN -- the Hollywood hit about two homosexual cowboys.

During a Q&A session at Kansas State University today, a student asked Bush: "I was just wanting to get your opinion on BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN if you'd seen it yet."

The crowd laughed softly before the student said loudly: "You would love it! You should check it out."

"I haven't seen it," Bush said flatly. "I'd be glad to talk about ranching, but I haven't seen the movie," he said to laughter. "I've heard about it."

The president waited a second or two, then said, according to a transcript: "I hope you go -- (laughter) -- you know -- (laughter) -- I hope you go back to the ranch and the farm, is what I was about to say. I haven't seen it. (Laughter, applause.)"
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Old 01-24-2006, 09:27 AM   #250
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen

The president waited a second or two, then said, according to a transcript: "I hope you go -- (laughter) -- you know -- (laughter) -- I hope you go back to the ranch and the farm, is what I was about to say. I haven't seen it. (Laughter, applause.)"
That's how a five-year-old would react. I always knew he was an infantile idiot. Jeez.
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Old 01-24-2006, 11:12 AM   #251
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[q]Ann Eichler, a 63-year-old grandmother in Scottsdale, Ariz., is smack in the middle of that demographic. She went to a 12:30 p.m. weekday showing without her husband and found the theater packed with women. “I think men are so uncomfortable with this kind of thing, even if they are very liberal-minded,” explains Eichler, who says she was enormously moved by the film. She admits she was “a little worried about a seeing a homosexual love scene, but I found I could handle it.” And she adds that her husband was kind of “don’t ask, don’t tell” about her seeing the movie. “He knows it’s out there, he just doesn’t want to talk about it.”[/q]

[q]KING: Don't you think you might learn more by looking at it rather than looking away from it?

PARSHALL: No, I don't think so. In fact, let me tell you something about Ang Lee. He's a brilliant film director. I'll bet if he found a really good property dealing with, oh let's say polygamy, I bet he could tap into the human heart. I bet he could make people cry. I bet he could pull away the kinds of emotions that people allegedly get after they walk out of this film.

And would it really be about getting us to look at polygamy and accepting it or would it really be about an effective director who knows how to use a particular art form?
[/q]





these comments literally make me sad. it's perfectly logical for me to sit back and think that these are just misinformed, ignorant people who are entitled to their opinions, blah, blah, blah; but deep down, it does bother me that how love and lust expresses themselves in my life is deeply repugnant to some other people.

i'm not looking for approval, nor do i want it.

but, still, it does bother me that i disgust people. i know it's not my issue, but it still fills me, in my more vulnerable moments, with ... not quite self-loathing, but something akin to that. almost like i need to apologize.

that said, the woman is a fool.
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Old 01-24-2006, 12:58 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
but, still, it does bother me that i disgust people. i know it's not my issue, but it still fills me, in my more vulnerable moments, with ... not quite self-loathing, but something akin to that. almost like i need to apologize.
I wish there was something I could say that could adequately respond to this, but there really isn't.

Discriminatory attitudes and stereotypes are one thing--visceral hatred and disgust are something else entirely. I wish it were the case that I could look into my own people's or family's past and share some wise secret for how to go about undoing the latter, but "Wait until something unspeakably awful happens, then maybe people will be shocked enough by the consequences to see the wisdom of not tolerating such attitudes" is just not an acceptable answer.

For what it's worth, it pains me deeply to not have a better response to offer.
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Old 01-24-2006, 01:40 PM   #253
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For what it's worth, it pains me deeply to not have a better response to offer.


thank you for trying.

it's just one of those things ... i suppose that, in one sense, to quote trainspotting, that if "it's all about aesthetics and fuck all to do with morality," then i really shouldn't get upset about someone reacting to what has been called the "ick factor" in homosexual relationships, though it seems to apply much more to male couples than female couples. if it's just aesthetics, then really, i don't get upset when people don't like, say, spinach, so why should i get upset if someone is grossed out by the idea of two men kissing? it's just personal taste, right?

i think that expressions of love and lust are simply more complicated and emotional than food preference or visual aesthetics. the fact that it's deeply repugnant to some ... well, it's not much i can do about that. and i do check my behavior. i don't hold hands while walking down the street, not even in the majority gay streets in East Dupont and Logan Circle. only in front of close friends, and usually after alcohol has been consumed, will i show any sort of physical affection towards my BF.

i tell myself that i'm just trying to be polite.

interesting you bring up the "unspeakably awful" -- there's a great discussion to be had between the historical basis for anti-semitism and the historical basis for homophobia as being cut from the same cloth (clannish, feared to be secretly powerful, able to blend in and "pass," both have committed sins against the Christian heirarchy yet live quietly among them) as well as being victims of an "unspeakably awful event" (holocaust/AIDS) that has drawn attention to both the group and to the discriminatory conditions that surround the group.
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Old 01-24-2006, 01:51 PM   #254
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This will be of little consolation but just wanted to share that one of my colleagues, a 65 year old woman, has seen Brokeback Mountain twice and announced this morning that if the man she is dating will not accompany her to her third viewing, and he says he will not, then she is going to break up with him because she doesn't want to be with someone "that insecure and close-minded." This was the last straw, apparently. So it is impacting people in some surprising ways.
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Old 01-24-2006, 01:56 PM   #255
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^wow that's interesting joyfulgirl

My Mother is around that age and she has no interest in seeing it-but she hardly ever goes to the movies and is very picky about what she sees. I told her about Brokeback Mountain and I wish she would see it. She is fairly open minded about gay issues, especially for someone of her generation. I am working on her
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