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Old 05-05-2003, 09:28 AM   #1
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British MP attacks Blair's "Jewish cabal"

From the Telegraph:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...%2Fndaly04.xml

Fury as Dalyell attacks Blair's 'Jewish cabal'
By Colin Brown and Chris Hastings
(Filed: 04/05/2003)


Tam Dalyell, the Father of the House, sparked outrage last night by accusing the Prime Minister of "being unduly influenced by a cabal of Jewish advisers".

In an interview with Vanity Fair, the Left-wing Labour MP named Lord Levy, Tony Blair's personal envoy on the Middle East, Peter Mandelson, whose father was Jewish, and Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, who has Jewish ancestry, as three of the leading figures who had influenced Mr Blair's policies on the Middle East.

Yesterday Mr Dalyell, the MP for Linlithgow, told The Telegraph: "I am fully aware that one is treading on cut glass on this issue and no one wants to be accused of anti-Semitism but, if it is a question of launching an assault on Syria or Iran . . . then one has to be candid."

He added: "I am not going to be labelled anti-Semitic. My children worked on a kibbutz. But the time has come for candour." The Prime Minister, Mr Dalyell claimed, was also indirectly influenced by Jewish people in the Bush administration, including Richard Perle, a Pentagon adviser, Paul Wolfowitz, the deputy defence secretary, and Ari Fleischer, the President's press secretary.

"They very much have captured the ear of the President of the United States. I said [to Vanity Fair] I thought that Blair was very sympathetic to them. I cannot understand why," Mr Dalyell said.

Mr Dalyell's claim caused fury last night. Mr Mandelson said: "Apart from the fact that I am not actually Jewish, I wear my father's parentage with pride. As for Tam, he is as incorrigible as ever."

Lord Janner, a Labour peer and the chairman of the Holocaust Education Trust, said: "I think these comments are sad and unfounded. Tony Blair is his own man. He will follow advice if he considers it correct and not otherwise. He has been a good friend of the Jewish people and the Jewish state."

Rabbi Dr Jonathan Romain of Maidenhead Synagogue and a spokesman for Britain's Reform Synagogues, said: "Tam Dalyell is not being candid but misguided. Concerning Iraq it was crystal clear that Tony Blair was not swayed by popularity or anyone else but by his own deep convictions. It is also obvious that the majority of President Bush's circle are Christian Evangelicals rather than Jews."

Ned Temko, the American-born editor of the Jewish Chronicle, said: "I just think these sort of comments are offensive and are a profound misunderstanding of the way foreign policy is made in the United States or here."

A spokesman for Lord Levy said he was not available for comment. A spokesman for the Foreign Secretary said: "If these reports are accurate, these remarks are too unworthy to be worth a comment."
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Old 05-05-2003, 11:39 AM   #2
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Sadly, it is easier to use the race/religion card than address the underlying issues.
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Old 05-05-2003, 12:16 PM   #3
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Yuck. This is an unwarranted attack on Jews and people of Jewish heritage. It seems to me that in some cases this tense situation has brought out the worst in people.
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Old 05-05-2003, 03:32 PM   #4
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Well, thats the thing... It is a yucky situation, but I don't see how it is an attack on Jews... Because people aren't critisizing the relgion of Judaism, instead people are discussing the Western support of Israel, and why the West supports Israel with so much money, etc.

Why has the West given $1.6 TRILLION dollars (David R. Francis, Christian Science Monitor) to Israel since 1970, but they have only given 15 billion dollars to the whole of Africa for the fight on Aids???


It is true, our policies in the West are highly influenced by Jewish people... We have major Jewish Think Tanks that are gov't run, and they have a great deal of influence on our gov't interests....

I mean, we are talking about interests here... Not necessarily about the relgion itself...

I will openly say, as a Muslim, that the Interests in most of the Arab countries are whacked, and unrealistic... But, this does not mean I am attacking Islam... It is only saying that I do not agree with what most of the Muslim country leaders are doing....

This has more to do with majority interests, or personal interests rather then religious heritage...
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Old 05-05-2003, 03:59 PM   #5
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Amna, I agree with your comments on the amount of aid the West has given to Israel relative to that provided to Africa, and I definitely don't agree with many aspects of Blair's policy towards Israel.

However, I still find Mr. Dalyell's comments offensive for a number of reasons. Firstly - he claims Blair is "unduly influenced" by Jewish people, when in fact Blair has very few Jewish advisers and in fact only one of the three people Mr. Dalyell names is actually Jewish. I hardly think that ONE Jewish adviser constiutes undue influence.

Secondly, Mr. Dalyell's defence against allegations of anti-semitism is quite laughable. "My children worked on a Kibbutz"? It's almost as bad as "I'm not a racist, I have Black frends."

And finally, as one of the people quoted in the article states, the US government is in fact more dominated by evangelical Protestants than by Jews! (Which isn't to say it's entirely dominated by that relgion.) The idea that Jewish people are somehow controlling all foreign policy decisions in the US just sounds like a conspiracy theory.
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Old 05-05-2003, 05:34 PM   #6
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If there's one leader who is not influenced by a lobby of any religion, it must be Tony Blair. It's also strange Tam Dalyell speaks of a Jewish lobby when Jack Straw is actually known for his collisions with the Israeli government - Sharon once refused to meet him after Straw wrote an article critical of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict for an Iranian newspaper. And recently Straw sparked another outrage with Sharon when he accused the West of hypocrisy in its attitude towards Israel and its non-compliance of UN resolutions and other nations such as Iraq.

Completely baseless accusations, is all I can say.
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Old 05-05-2003, 05:43 PM   #7
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I think if Blair is influenced by any religion, it's only by his own personal religious convictions!
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Old 05-05-2003, 08:49 PM   #8
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Hmmm.. Well, i have to say, the people who have the most say in our gov't are the people with the deniro.... Hmmm... So, even though we have more evangalical Protestants in our gov't, the real influence comes from the people with more money; truth is, this is where more Jewish people have more power here..
This is not a conspiracy, it is a fact....

This also goes towards our media... The people with the money get their news on the telly....

this is one thing that i have to give to England, is that their media is gov't powerd...

Over here, in the US, you can have real important news, but if you don't have the money, then it will not show...

Anyways, I really don't know what my point was coming to, but I think I was responding to Fizzing?
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Old 05-05-2003, 08:56 PM   #9
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I think that if we keep on reducing all of our world's problems to racial and cultural stereotypes that we're going to continue to wallow in stupidity. As cynical as I am, I think this is exactly what we are going to continue to do.

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Old 05-05-2003, 09:15 PM   #10
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what i was saying was not stereotypical, it was basically describing the ratio of influence...

Stereo typing Muslims as terrorists is stupid.
Stereotyping Jews as greedy, flashy people is stupid.
Stereotyping Americans as dumb bumbs, is ... ummm.debatable.. jk, stupid.

I agree that stereotyping will only make things worst...
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Old 05-06-2003, 01:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
this is where more Jewish people have more power here.. This is not a conspiracy, it is a fact....
Quote:
Stereotyping Jews as greedy, flashy people is stupid
Do you see the contradiction here?
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Old 05-06-2003, 08:54 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amna
the real influence comes from the people with more money; truth is, this is where more Jewish people have more power here..
This is not a conspiracy, it is a fact....

This also goes towards our media... The people with the money get their news on the telly....
Can you maybe give some examples of where the "fact" that Jewish people have more money is proved? Or if you can give examples of tv stations or newspapers which are owned by Jewish people, that would be interesting too.
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Old 05-06-2003, 10:14 AM   #13
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Acty, if you've been watching the entertainment industry lately you would know that the Jews are being pushed out by the Gay Mafia. [hmm...no stereotypes in that sentence huh?]

as for the story itself, I don't care what the UK's position is. the fact remains that someone said the government was controlled by a "Jewish cabal." last time I checked being Jewish doesn't give you control of a government. There are even Christian politicians in Israel.

This guy is ignorant and frankly, no different than Santorum or Trent Lott. The UK has its Jewish cabal, we have our unnatural sex and institutional racism.
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Old 05-06-2003, 10:21 AM   #14
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Sharky,
Just for the record (although I'm sure you're already aware of this) Mr. Dalyell definitely doesn't represent mainstream political opinion in the UK anymore than Senator Santorum represents mainstream US opinion. Of course that doesn't make his remarks any less inappropriate, but at least he's in the minority within the Labour party in holding such opinions.
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Old 05-06-2003, 10:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amna
Hmmm.. Well, i have to say, the people who have the most say in our gov't are the people with the deniro.... Hmmm... So, even though we have more evangalical Protestants in our gov't, the real influence comes from the people with more money; truth is, this is where more Jewish people have more power here..
This is not a conspiracy, it is a fact....
I would *love* to see you prove this point. What you said is pure conjecture and an oversimplification of the situation. In effect, you are saying "those rich Jews are paying to have their point of view dominate the American media". Hmmm....could it be that they might just have reasonable arguments, and Americans are reasonable people who are willing to listen? Oh, but it is much easier to spout out some conspiracy theory about how Jews are bribing the whole world because they are so rich and omnipotent.

The American media has its problems in being too slanted toward the US and patriotic grandstanding (for better ratings, most likely), but to extend it to being pure bribery is not supportable with any evidence. It undermines the entire idea of a free press, which is insulting to the profession of journalism.

Quote:
Originally posted by Amna

Over here, in the US, you can have real important news, but if you don't have the money, then it will not show...
Please try to back your opinions up with some sort of fact. Otherwise, these statements are not cogent arguments.


AJ
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