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Old 04-17-2005, 06:25 AM   #16
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I think that Saddam had removed anything significant by the start of the war, but I would go with what the inspection teams concluded that the intent was to get sanctions removed and then reactivate the programs.
Yeah, with wheel barrels.
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Old 04-18-2005, 12:50 PM   #17
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Yeah, with wheel barrels.
Or maybe it was in the trucks that Charles Duelfer himself said was show on satelite photos transporting large amounts of unknown material from Iraq to Syria in the weeks leading up to the war.
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Old 04-18-2005, 06:49 PM   #18
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Maybe? Launch a $200 billion dollar war on the premise that he had those weapons, a war that's cost over 100,000 civilian lives and NOW, 2 years later, we SPECULATE that "maybe" he had weapons?

Sorry fellows, this kind of excuse making is sickening. You can't prove he had weapons and there's no evidence to suggest he's had any since the Gulf War. The "satellite photos" were all speculative and probably a Bush hoax. I can't believe that even though your own gov't is investigating why the CIA HAD IT WRONG(!!!!) that people are still making excuses. The US gov't has already admitted it was wrong on that premise. Now, they're falling back on the old "freedom" rhetorical nonsense that they've used ad-nauseum throughout the last 50 years in foreign interventions, with mostly negative consequences, debt and war to show for it. The self-righteous "freedom" cause has cost over 8 million civilian lives at the hands of the US gov't and its money in the last 50 years and very little freedom has resulted. Many dictators have, I should add. Saddam Hussein used weapons of mass destruction on the Kurds in 1988, WITH US GOV'T BACKING! "Freedom" and other excuses can be summed up in 2 words: "ad hoc".

How do rational people believe he didn't? You have the question wrong, my friend. If you want to make bold assertions and undermine the sovereignty of a foreign nation with soldiers and guns, you better have the proof. The burden of proof was on the US gov't and they failed. Hence the war is an unjust war, even by America's standards. Innocent until proven guilty. If you can't come up with the goods, then they didn't exist. Amazing that people brag about rights and freedoms as the pillars of their own societies, but are not willing to extend those rights and freedoms to the others, even the ones they're apparently trying to spread them to.

Personal speculations and beliefs about Saddam Hussein aren't any kind of empirical or rational justification for war. With all due respect, thank goodness most of the world's people see that.

Jon
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Old 04-18-2005, 06:55 PM   #19
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That's the extent to which I agree with your post Klink
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Old 04-19-2005, 06:39 AM   #20
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It's a hoax because it doesn't fit our pre-conceived notions of what really happened?
if it really happened, it would be all over the news. its a right wing conspiracy.
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Old 04-19-2005, 10:52 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Klink
Maybe? Launch a $200 billion dollar war on the premise that he had those weapons, a war that's cost over 100,000 civilian lives and NOW, 2 years later, we SPECULATE that "maybe" he had weapons?

Sorry fellows, this kind of excuse making is sickening. You can't prove he had weapons and there's no evidence to suggest he's had any since the Gulf War. The "satellite photos" were all speculative and probably a Bush hoax.
So now Charles Duelfer, the man who wrote the Iraq WMD report, the report that liberals worldwide hail as the Gospel Truth, is part of a "Bush Hoax"? You can't have it both ways.

Like it or not, Charles Duelfer did indeed attest to the fact that trucks carrying large amounts of "unknown material" crossed over into Syria in the weeks before the war.

"A lot of materials left Iraq and went to Syria," Duelfer said. "There was certainly a lot of traffic across the border points. We've got a lot of data to support that, including people discussing it. But whether in fact in any of these trucks there was WMD-related materials, I cannot say."
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Old 04-20-2005, 10:02 AM   #22
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


So now Charles Duelfer, the man who wrote the Iraq WMD report, the report that liberals worldwide hail as the Gospel Truth, is part of a "Bush Hoax"? You can't have it both ways.

Like it or not, Charles Duelfer did indeed attest to the fact that trucks carrying large amounts of "unknown material" crossed over into Syria in the weeks before the war.

"A lot of materials left Iraq and went to Syria," Duelfer said. "There was certainly a lot of traffic across the border points. We've got a lot of data to support that, including people discussing it. But whether in fact in any of these trucks there was WMD-related materials, I cannot say."


Yeah, that's the point. UNKNOWN MATERIAL somehow got translated into mobile nuclear weaponry and a $200 billion war was launched on the premise that those were WMD in Iraq. Of course, they were so sure of that and they wanted so badly to diminish the threat of WMD that they didn't pursue Syria.

Liberals? Grouping liberals together like that is dangerous name-calling. There is no Gospel Truth...only political/economic interest. Duelfer's document is helpful in that it acknowledges that mistakes were made. In terms of speculating about material, his guess is as good as mine. Just because his document admits mistakes of the Bush admin doesn't mean that it's not part of the Bush damage control plan. Bush knows that there were no WMD and this report is his way of saying 'we're looking into the mistakes.' Putting a positive spin on the whole debacle in the way of saying "our intelligence failed and we'll fix it." This is no liberally hailed document. The only part I take solace in is the fact that mistakes are admitted. Just because that's true, doesn't mean the rest is also true.

Jon
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