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Old 03-11-2008, 11:45 AM   #76
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Originally posted by anitram


I am not one of these women. But I have spoken to a number of them, and they are rational and eloquent and disagree with her policies. They're not some kind of traitors to their gender.
Which policies, besides the Iraq vote? Just curious.
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Old 03-11-2008, 12:26 PM   #77
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Well, there are the economic conservatives (2 that I know, heaven help me), who do not support any kind of socialized health care plan - obviously they'd take a similar stand regarding Obama. I don't think they will vote for McCain because they are rather socially liberal and dislike the current crop of Republicans so I imagine they probably won't vote. This is the trust fund baby constituency, in case you're wondering.

Most of the others take issue with her foreign policy and think that she is going to be only marginally less isolationist than the Republicans. I think a lot of it comes from the perception that she has taken such a hard stand on the WoT that she's willing to part with some diplomatic avenues in the name of seeming tough.

One woman I know won't vote for her because she thinks that the current health care proposal is pathetic and that Hillary had it right back in the 90s, but that her subsequent interactions with BigPharma have caused her to sell out her principles in that respect. This is somebody with a PhD who works in research, who also feels that Hillary's close ties to Big Pharma will just result in more nonsense like the NEJM being sued to reveal their peer reviewers and so on.
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Old 03-11-2008, 01:34 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

i think a lot of it comes from her being a woman. i do think there's a strong dollop of sexism mixed into the brew of Hillary-hate. i think some men find her castrating. i think some men find her a grown-up Tracy Flick.

it's a very, very complex thing. sexism is a part of it, but not all of it. i think there are many men who would vote for a woman, happily, but wouldn't vote for *this* woman, yet for reasons that are inextricably linked to her being a woman.
And why do they find her "castrating"? When you find out why, well you have to wonder why a man with the very same qualities would not be labeled the male equivalent, whatever that may be-and is there even such a thing? It all comes down to women being expected to conform to a certain different standard, doesn't it? People can disagree with her policies and I respect that 100 percent, and that "traitor to gender" that was lobbed at Oprah and others is complete crap and offensive. But I have no respect for those reasons that are inextricably linked to her being a woman, and I think you are so right about that. It's like those people who say Obama is more feminine, more like a woman-when they say that they mean more like their standard of how women should behave and be.
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Old 03-11-2008, 01:58 PM   #79
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I am at a bit of a loss

with all this emphasis on the packaging



I know it is not easy

but, switch out McCain
with a Margaret Thacher type

I choose her because she is close to his age

I hope that person would have the same pool of voters regardless of gender


and again,
swap Hillary for a 60 year old male,
say a Gore or Kerry
with the same programs and agenda?

I hope that person would have the same pool of voters, would it be larger?


I did this exercise with Obama
swap him out for someone that has only been a U S Senator for 3 years

and ask yourself if a different package
would get his same pool of voters ?

more or less?


Is there too much consideration being given to the packaging?
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Old 03-11-2008, 08:08 PM   #80
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Originally posted by melon


So how's Stephen Harper doing up there?
A helluva lot better than anything you guys have elected since JFK!!! At least Harper (and I'm anything but a fan) hasn't jailed more people for possession of Marijuana than Bill Clinton. At least he's no where near as bad as Bush/Cheney. Or Nixon. Ford. Carter (O.K. , maybe Carter has an edge). Johnson. Although we certainly have our share of problems I couldn't be happier being a Canadian citizen as opposed to an American. Having said that, some of the nicest people I've ever met were American citizens. It's your Government I can never trust.
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Old 03-11-2008, 08:10 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by Harry Vest


At least Harper (and I'm anything but a fan) hasn't jailed more people for possession of Marijuana than Bill Clinton.
So they are/were federally imprisoned?
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Old 03-11-2008, 08:23 PM   #82
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I must say I was fooled and used to like Bill Clinton - until I took a real look at what happened during his years as President. Here's a guy who had the audacity to claim he tried marijuana but NEVER INHALED - Bullshit!!! Then came Welfare reform, The Three Strikes law, and the fact that there were more convictions of simple posession during his years than previously. Not to mention the ignoring of Rwanda. He was spineless as a President. Slightly better than Bush overall but what the hell is that saying. Hillary would be no different. Obama just might be.
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Old 03-11-2008, 08:29 PM   #83
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Again, are those federal charges? I might be wrong, but to my knowledge the harsh marijuana prosecution, zero tolerance policies and three strikes laws were state policies, and charged on state level, not federal.

I agree they should have taken action in Rwanda way earlier, but there are to blame: The US, the UN, the EU and all its member states, Canada and many more countries that just watched.

Welfare policy in the US, if you don't know, is a very difficult issue. I haven't looked into the details of those, and I know that some of them didn't really help much, especially for the poor, there also has been some progress you haven't seen with the other presidents.
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