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Old 06-22-2005, 12:07 PM   #76
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I am not positive about this, but I believe (surely someone in Canada or Europe can back me up) that businesses are given tax credits for supplying the paid leave--either that or the government pays the leave outright.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:09 PM   #77
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in canada, the government pays 55% of the average income through employment insurance. some businesses don't top that amount up, some do. i'm not positive, but i'm sure there must be tax incentives for doing so.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:32 PM   #78
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Originally posted by pax


Tim, are you joking? Believe me, companies could swing it somehow. Our Canadian and European counterparts manage it just fine, it seems.
No they don't. Their unemployment rate is higher than ours in countries like France and Germany, in part because the incentive to work and the safety net for incompetence is too broad. They have cradle to grave welfare which stagnates productivity.

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And yes, I believe that families should have the option of either or both parents taking time off to spend with a new child. Parenting isn't just for women. And are you ACTUALLY suggesting that people would just get pregnant to have free time off from work?
I agree that parenting isn't just for women, and I support family planning, particularly in the forms of contraception, but why should I pay for your child because you either consciously or unconsciously got pregnant? Consequences exist in part to encourage us to be more responsible. Grace abounds but look toward a church, organization or a family member and not to the Government. To codify your mistakes into public policy simply encourages more of the same behavior.

Welfare mothers did it. They would have more kids to get more checks. Part of welfare reform was to stop rewarding people in poverty with more money when they couldn't afford the kids that they had.

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I'm saying that if you want to support a "culture of life" in this country, you need to actually encourage people to be good, loving parents. And this is a good way for people to focus on what matters (yes) more than work or money: their kids.
It is one thing to decrease impediments, and it is one thing to increase rewards for actions. Where that starts and stops would be an endless debate. I think having companies pay for it is going too far. It also makes it harder for Mom & Pop businesses to get started, which basically makes the big corporations (which so many people hate) less personal, and more conglomerate, because it's the only place that can afford to pay people that extra money.

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And, I'm sorry, but I have a hard time respecting the argument of folks who are against abortion but also against financial, material, and emotional support of new parents. As I've said before, too many people are pro-life only until the kid is born. After that, it's "screw you and your unemployed/underemployed/employed but can't take time off from work because she'll be out on the streets mom." [/B]
You're talking about two different motivations. My position on the abortion issue has nothing to do with money. If it were about money then kill 'em all, we don't need that drag on the economy. But that is not where I'm coming from. When someone has a child out of wedlock and uses the government instead of people around her, it encourages lack of accountability, responsibility, lack of care and a lack of change, and dare I say a lack of gratefulness. When you see someone being generous to you, you often try to repay that generosity with a thanks or by trying to mend your ways (if you have bad habits), or even just by helping out in their times of trouble. The government does a poorer job of caring people than people do and will not seek to do much more than satisfy the requirement by law.

Hi Pax! -- The costs have to be paid somewhere. Either through higher taxes, higher insurance costs which you will pay someday either through more expensive goods or fewer jobs. It's not free. There are plenty of people who will cut back on entertainment and other budgetary items in order to have the life they want without making others pay for their decision.

I'm done. I need to actually work to pay for the pregant lady in the cube next to me. Kidding!
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:35 PM   #79
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Originally posted by starsforu2


To codify your mistakes into public policy simply encourages more of the same behavior.

Ah, so now the children that result from unplanned pregnancies are "mistakes"?

Well.

This "mistake" is going to wander away from this thread now.

Attitudes like this one make me positively ill.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:40 PM   #80
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i think someone's been listening to the gospel of Supply-Side Jesus.

i also love the assumption that everyone has someone they can turn to.

i also hear that unicorns exist.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:41 PM   #81
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Supply-Side Jesus

I'm familiar with the comic.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:43 PM   #82
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also reminds me of my new favorite saying (and this applies to many of my friends, especially the ones who went to Ivy League schools and have flashy jobs and whine about their taxes):

"so many people born on third base walk through life thinking they hit a triple."
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:46 PM   #83
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Originally posted by Irvine511

"so many people born on third base walk through life thinking they hit a triple."
i suppose in a way, that's kind of true.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:47 PM   #84
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Eddie Vedder in "Bushleaguer."
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:50 PM   #85
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Originally posted by Irvine511

i also love the assumption that everyone has someone they can turn to.
Exactly, I'd like to live in that world.

A baby isn't a puppy. You can't just give it to someone. You can't just magically have money to raise one. And you also can't just all of a sudden decide that's what you want to commit your life to, esp. when you've already been responsible enough to realize you don't want or shouldn't have children and have taken precautions to make sure it didn't happen.

Or perhaps the only people having sex should be those who want kids and homosexuals?
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:51 PM   #86
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i've said it before and i'll say it again: nor abortion has ever happened as a result of gay sex.

HAVE MORE GAY SEX!!!!
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:51 PM   #87
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Or perhaps the only people having sex should be those who want kids and homosexuals?
no no, it's only the people who want kids who should have sex.




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Old 06-22-2005, 01:03 PM   #88
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Originally posted by Sparkysgrrrl

Exactly, I'd like to live in that world.

A baby isn't a puppy. You can't just give it to someone. You can't just magically have money to raise one. And you also can't just all of a sudden decide that's what you want to commit your life to, esp. when you've already been responsible enough to realize you don't want or shouldn't have children and have taken precautions to make sure it didn't happen.

Or perhaps the only people having sex should be those who want kids and homosexuals?
If you ask for help, people give it. No one wants to ask for help. Too prideful. Too much shame. I include myself in this accusation. I'm learning how to ask for help.

so Do I support a safety net, yeah I do, but not as broad as you want to make it. Welfare Reform (which has been wildly successful) has put limits on the safety nets. And before Melon chimes in... Yes, I'm against Corporate Welfare too. Let a company sink or swim based on it's own capacity to market and sell products and services.
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Old 06-22-2005, 01:08 PM   #89
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This thread turned to shit fast.
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Old 06-22-2005, 01:08 PM   #90
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Originally posted by pax


Ah, so now the children that result from unplanned pregnancies are "mistakes"?
Well.
This "mistake" is going to wander away from this thread now.
Attitudes like this one make me positively ill.
Did starsforu2 say that the children that result from unplanned pregnancies are "mistakes", or did you read that into it?

Answer: you read that into it.
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