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melon

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Atheist Scout given a week to declare belief

Scout executive: 'Mother Nature would be acceptable'

PORT ORCHARD, Washington (AP) --Eagle Scout Darrell Lambert has earned 37 merit badges, worked more than 1,000 hours of community service and helps lead a Boy Scout troop in his hometown.

But the 19-year-old has another distinction that may lead to his removal from the Boy Scouts: He's an atheist.

Last week, Lambert was given roughly a week by the Boy Scouts' regional executive to declare belief in a supreme being and comply with Boy Scout policy, or quit the Scouts.

The official and Lambert were to talk again this week regarding Lambert's answer.

"We've asked him to search his heart, to confer with family members, to give this great thought," Brad Farmer, the Scout executive of the Chief Seattle Council of the Boy Scouts, told The Sun of Bremerton.

"If he says he's an avowed atheist, he does not meet the standards of membership."

On membership applications, Boy Scouts and adult leaders must say they recognize some higher power, not necessarily religious. "Mother Nature would be acceptable," Farmer said.

As a private organization, the Boy Scouts are permitted to exclude certain people from membership. The organization bans gays and atheists.

Lambert, who has been a Scout since he was 9, said he won't profess a belief he doesn't feel, saying it amounts to a lie. "I wouldn't be a good Scout then, would I?"

The issue arose about three weeks ago when Lambert got into an argument with a Scout leader at a Boy Scout leadership training seminar over whether atheists should be expelled from the organization. Farmer's office soon contacted him to talk about his nonbelief.

Lambert disclosed his atheism to Scout leaders overseeing his Eagle Scout application last year, but still received the award.

The issue has surfaced before. In 1998, 16-year-old twins Michael and William Randall, who refused to take an oath to God, were awarded Eagle badges after a seven-year legal fight with the Orange County, California, council.

...

That's funny. They'll allow him to declare belief in "Mother Nature," but homosexuals aren't allowed, despite the fact that several Christian and non-Christian religions have no moral issue with it.

It is of my opinion that this organization is in some serious need to reorganize its priorities. When I was a Boy Scout, this was an organization where one goes camping...lol. Since when was this *ever* a religious organization? The idea of civic ethics that this group expounds certainly transcends theism.

Your thoughts?

Melon
 
It is of my opinion that this organization is in some serious need to reorganize its priorities
Agreed.
Like the girl scouts they have one little line about god somewhere in the manual, but that's not what it was ever about.
Roast marshmellows, sing songs, tie a knot or two....these ppl are ridiculous.

(but so is being 19 and still being a Boy Scout
:wink: )
 
my boyfriend is a scout leader

Sparkysgrrrl said:


(but so is being 19 and still being a Boy Scout
:wink: )

He's an eagle scout :wink: and that takes a lot of dedication. Scouts raises men with good priorities and morals, can't be knockin.



But the Boy Scouts DO have a lot of need for policy rearrangement. No gays, no atheists, no one different. Oops, I think I slid that last one in by myself.
 
Hey, it's not ridiculous to be in scouts at 19! Some of my best Girl Scout years were in high school.

This whole issue is ridiculous. The Boy Scouts (and Girl Scouts, for that matter) are not so much about God and being straight as they are about learning skills, performing service, and socializing with your peers--and maybe some camping. ;)

As a result of this crap, I've stopped supporting the Boy Scouts in any way I can. My co-workers son was selling popcorn, but I had to refuse to buy any. Whether her eight-year-old son understands it or not, his organizaiton promotes intolerance, and I'm not going to support it. Indeed, the scouts have their priorities out of whack. It sounds like they are operating their organization out of fear and prejudice more than service and compassion.
 
melon said:
The issue has surfaced before. In 1998, 16-year-old twins Michael and William Randall, who refused to take an oath to God, were awarded Eagle badges after a seven-year legal fight with the Orange County, California, council.

I agree that the Scouts need to review their priorities, or at least have a coherent policy for membership requirements.

The other incident you site is interesting as the father of the twins, who was an atheist, was the one who forced the issue. As much as the Scout's policies rub me the wrong way, I also get tired of those who want to stamp references to God out of public life.
 
I only meant that comment in jest...I'm well into my 20's and play with Star Wars figures given the chance :der:

If the Scouts want to really really become a more religious oriented organization, I think they need to make the perfectly clear...well in the last few years it's seems they are trying to do that I suppose...but I think it would be great if another org. was started that didn't have that connection, and was accepting and it wasn't even an issue. I mean we're talking for the most part about little kids and they have no interest in whether or not someone's gay, atheist or whatever, they just want to have a little group where they can have fun.

Unfortunetly since the Scouts have such a long history etc. It would be hard for another group to be established.
 
If I'm not mistaken, Campfire Girls and Boys is an alternative organization that many people are supporting instead of the Boy Scouts. I could be wrong about that. Can anyone verify?
 
HeartlandGirl said:


As a result of this crap, I've stopped supporting the Boy Scouts in any way I can. My co-workers son was selling popcorn, but I had to refuse to buy any. Whether her eight-year-old son understands it or not, his organizaiton promotes intolerance, and I'm not going to support it. Indeed, the scouts have their priorities out of whack. It sounds like they are operating their organization out of fear and prejudice more than service and compassion.


I agree. It's really a shame they are teaching these young boys, who haven't yet the experience/insight to build their world views, intolerance. The boys are there to learn about life, teamwork, their own selves, the world around them, but the organization separates them and marks certain people as "wrong" or "inferior." :down:

On the religion issue, I agree with Melon that they really have to sit down and clearly state what the creed for the Boy Scouts is ASAP, rather than making up things as they go.. I mean, I don't agree with them but at least the boys aren't lying about how they feel.

I also agree with nbcrusader about being fed up w/ some people trying to stamp out all mention of God at all in this world. :down:

And finally.. Campfire is different than Boy/Girl Scouts. I volunteered through Campfire at an after-school program for under privalaged children. Definitely not the boy/girl scouts.. these kids came from very broken families. We would go to a hall in their neighborhood to be with them, and had to leave before dark. :uhoh:
 
Sparkysgrrrl said:
I only meant that comment in jest...I'm well into my 20's and play with Star Wars figures given the chance :der:

Where were you when I was twenty?

HEHE:sexywink:

Ouch...my wife just hit me off the head!!!! :scream:

Dang...I think I am a Democrat now!
 
sorry ppl..
i dont agree.
I was a Boy Scout at one time:ohmy::yes::sexywink:
Yes lil ol me..

The Boy Scouts Of America is a private institution..
Part of the oath u take is to believe in God..
If u dont like it.. dont take the oath and
dont join:)

It seems this person is trying to start up controversy is all..



Start up a new godless BSA.. if u wish, its a free country:)

Out-
-diamond-
 
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it pains me to say :sexywink:
i think diamond has a pt :ohmy:

BS is private ~ they can sorta do what they want.


so long as there's a non-secular alternative.








____
:wave: though i still think they should be more open.
 
diamond said:
The Boy Scouts Of America is a private institution..
Part of the oath u take is to believe in God..
If u dont like it.. dont take the oath and
dont join:)

I disagree with this sentiment, sheerly because of the fact that it partially receives government money and support. The idea that this is a wholly private institution is a fallacy.

Melon
 
melon said:


I disagree with this sentiment, sheerly because of the fact that it partially receives government money and support. The idea that this is a wholly private institution is a fallacy.

Melon
I was always told it was..proportionately Melon how much govt money vs private money is funded to the BSA?
Just curious thats all.

See what happens here is that you open up a "slippery-slope"..
Pretty soon-The Moose Lodge will have to merge w The Elk Lodge cuz some of "The Elks " got their feelings hurt..:huh: ect ect ect..
Where does it stop..?
I think our country is DRUNK on civil rights and DRUNK on the demand of civil liberties..jimminy christmas:huh:

Jayus enough already..

Get my point?
thanks-
diamond
:dance:
 
That's stupid. Very stupid.

It's not like his being an atheist is gonna kill anyone. Why should he have to say he believes in a supreme being if he honestly doesn't. There's no law in this country that says you absolutely must believe in a supreme being.

The Boy Scouts have totally lost sight of what the organization was intended for: one of those intentions being acceptance.

It's a real shame. It really is.

Angela
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
That's stupid. Very stupid.

Why should he have to say he believes in a supreme being if he honestly doesn't. [/i]
.



Angela [/B]
Ummmmm....
Because he took and oath to. Perhaps?:huh:

DB9
:dance:
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
That's stupid. Very stupid.

It's not like his being an atheist is gonna kill anyone. Why should he have to say he believes in a supreme being if he honestly doesn't. There's no law in this country that says you absolutely must believe in a supreme being.

The Boy Scouts have totally lost sight of what the organization was intended for: one of those intentions being acceptance.

It's a real shame. It really is.

Angela

I think that God has been the foundation of Boy Scouts since the beginning and has opened that to be interpreted as "supreme being" over time to accomodate different religions/beliefs. Here is the Boy Scout Oath:


Boy Scout Oath
On my honor, I will do my best,
to do my duty to God and my country,
to obey the Scout Law,
to help other people at all times;
to keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake and morally straight.


I agree that being an aethist isn't going to kill anyone Angela, but Diamond is right - it's part of the oath he takes in being a Boy Scout in the first place. It doesn't make sense to me that someone who so firmly doesn't believe in a supreme being could stand in all of those meetings listening to the Oath and not be agreeing with it.

My son is a boy scout and Melon - it is still an organization where one goes camping! I believe in the Boy Scout organization and while I can understand the aethist's point - it is something that he has known to be an issue since the day he joined - so to stay so long is not being true to himself.

I find the disallowing of gays to be more unfair. I don't think that gays should be banned from joining a troop. I can see potential issues though, as we don't allow girl and boy teenagers to tent together do we?

Anyhow, I really hope that those of you that don't support the Boy Scouts reconsider. I think the organization is very beneficial to boys and for the few court cases where the Scout organization seems so "wrong", there are another 930,000+ kids that are getting a great experience.
 
BostonAnne said:
I find the disallowing of gays to be more unfair. I don't think that gays should be banned from joining a troop. I can see potential issues though, as we don't allow girl and boy teenagers to tent together do we?

I think it is silly, partly because they do allow everyone's religious beliefs under the sun. If I sincerely thought a teacup was a god, I would be allowed in. But, on a more serious note, there are many mainstream religions that have no problem at all with homosexuality. I find that the Boy Scouts' decision to mandate that this is immoral to be unbecoming of their otherwise inclusive religious undertones.

And I find the latter part to be equally silly, just as the popular fallacy that boys and girls can't "just be friends." I find such speak to be insulting to *all* men everywhere; that we're simply just hormonal sex fiends.

Melon
 
melon said:


And I find the latter part to be equally silly, just as the popular fallacy that boys and girls can't "just be friends." I find such speak to be insulting to *all* men everywhere; that we're simply just hormonal sex fiends.

Melon

What I meant is that youth organizations do not allow boys and girls to sleep in the same common place. I didn't imply that boys and girls can't "just be friends" nor was I implying that men are just hormonal sex fiends. I agree that such speak is insulting.

Young girls are just as capable of discoving the joys of sex and enjoy sneaking stolen moments whenever possible. If boys and girls were allowed to camp together in organizations, then the opportunity for sneaking in stolen moments would be greater. While I don't believe that homosexuals should be banned from Boy Scouts, I see the open opportunity that is not available to hetrosexuals.
 
I understand he took an oath.

But maybe at the time he took the oath he wasn't nearly as secure in his atheist beliefs as he may be now. Or maybe he did believe in God at the time he took that oath, but over time his beliefs changed.

How'd the people find out that he was an atheist, anyway?

I know he took an oath, but okay, they found out he was an atheist-he's still a good person, he still did a lot of good stuff for the community and for the troop and all that...can't the people in there just let the matter drop, just leave him alone?

Angela
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
I understand he took an oath.

...can't the people in there just let the matter drop, just leave him alone?

Angela
No.
It creates a "slippery-slope"..

DB9
 
Moonlit_Angel said:


How would it do that?

Angela
You take an oath to believe in God..
Like he did..

The next person dosent/never believed in God but now DEMANDS to be let in because of the Athesist #1..

Do you see the pt?
Boy Scouts profess a belief in God:)
Its still a private instituion..
Therefore find an institution where you are comfortable, instead making an institution conform to you..
Make sense?

DB9
 
melon said:

And I find the latter part to be equally silly, just as the popular fallacy that boys and girls can't "just be friends." I find such speak to be insulting to *all* men everywhere; that we're simply just hormonal sex fiends.

Insulting to women as well, assuming that our delicate and weak natures must be protected from the ravaging and sex-hungry impulses of all men everywhere.
 
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