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Old 03-23-2005, 12:29 PM   #16
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Originally posted by drhark


Nothing wrong with changing the rules if the votes are there. Senators or political parties doing anything egregious against the will of the people will be held accountable.

oh?

as always, The Simpsons has some wisdom to share, and while this isn't about Senate procedures, it is about the danger of changing the rules just because we can:



Lyrics for "Amendment-to-Be" (with Jack Sheldon, Pamela Hayden, and Harry Shearer)

Boy: [spoken] Hey, who left all this garbage lying on the steps of Congress?

Amendment: [spoken] I'm not garbage.

I'm an amendment to be
Yes, an amendment to be
And I'm hoping that they'll ratify me
There's a lot of flag burners
Who have got too much freedom
I wanna make it legal
For policemen
To beat 'em
'Cause there's limits to our liberties
'Least I hope and pray that there are
'Cause those liberal freaks go too far.

Boy: [spoken] But why can't we just make a law against flag burning?

Amendment: [spoken] Because that law would be unconstitutional. But if we _changed_ the Constitution...

Boy: [spoken] Then we could make all sorts of crazy laws!

Amendment: [spoken] Now you're catching on!

Boy: [spoken] But what if they say you're not good enough to be in the Constitution?

Amendment: Then I'll destroy all opposition to me
And I'll make Ted Kennedy pay
If he fights back
I'll say that he's gay

Big Fat Guy: [running up] Good news, Amendment! They ratified 'ya. You're in the U.S. Constitution!

Amendment: Oh, yeah! Door's open, boys!
[many bills and amendments run in, guns a-shooting and bombs a-flying]
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:37 PM   #17
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Amendment: Then I'll destroy all opposition to me
And I'll make Ted Kennedy pay
If he fights back
I'll say that he's gay
That line is just hilarious. Just the drawn out gaaaay.
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:41 PM   #18
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Originally posted by drhark
If you want to start with the ridiculous labels, (we should be beyond that) then I'll say that we need some more "fascists" to balance out the "communists".
"Fascist" is probably inaccurate. They're more like "Christian mullahs."

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Old 03-23-2005, 02:23 PM   #19
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Originally posted by melon


"Fascist" is probably inaccurate. They're more like "Christian mullahs."

Melon
except, of course, the ones that aren't Christian.


BTW, I like the Simpsons too and it's a cute little jingle, but I believe lawmakers do take something like a Constitutional Amandment seriously, and if it ever got close to passing one, elected representatives know their ass would be on the line and would not pass it if a strong majority of the people were not behind it.

If the Constitution need changing, I prefer this method where I have some say as opposed to an unelected judge writing things into it that aren't there.
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Old 03-23-2005, 02:31 PM   #20
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Originally posted by drhark
except, of course, the ones that aren't Christian.
Does Bush appoint *anyone* who isn't an extremist Christian mullah?

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Old 03-23-2005, 02:52 PM   #21
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Originally posted by melon


Does Bush appoint *anyone* who isn't an extremist Christian mullah?

Melon


great point. it's been through judicial nominations that Bush has most been able to repay the far Christian Right, since things like the illegalization of abortion and the passage of the FMA aren't going to happen anytime soon. they demand payback for giving him 2 election victories, and this is the best way to go about it since it's much more under the radar than legislation.

you think you've got "activist" judges now? wait until these people climb up onto the bench.
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Old 03-23-2005, 03:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by drhark




If the GOP wants to change the Senate rules, or basically clarify the unwritten rule that filibusters are not allowed on judicial nominees, that's fine if they have the votes and the will to do it. Changing Senate procedures is not changing the Constitution, or as another (completely out of line) Democratic Senator Shumer put it: giving the "rubber stamp of dictatorship". Ridiculous. It's called majority rules. Live with it. The beautiful thing about this country is that every two years the people have the opportunity to change their government.


Quote:
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER: The Senate rules, wait, I have to answer that. The Senate rules say you need a two-thirds vote to change the Senate rules. That wasn't just an arbitrary number. It's because the Senate is supposed to work by comity. You're supposed to have Democrats and Republicans working together; that's why the two-thirds was chosen.
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Old 03-23-2005, 03:42 PM   #23
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SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER: Yeah. The bottom line is the judges we have blocked want to turn the clock back. They don't want to be narrow interpretation of the law. Their view of narrow interpretation of the law is to turn the clock back to the 1890s.

One of the judges that they nominated said, "God's gift to white people was slavery." A judge they nominated said the purpose of a man is to be subjugated to a woman. A judge we blocked, we blocked those two. A judge they nominated said there should be no zoning laws. If someone wanted to build a factory right next to your home, that's a taking of property. And a final one said there should be no labor laws, no minimum wage, no wages and hours, no worker protection laws, because those were all takings, unconstitutional takings.

The people we have blocked are extremists, and if they were to go forward, the America we know, the changes we have made to making America a more fair and humane place, would be gone; and we'd go back to the 1890s where those who had the power got their way completely. They can't do it in the Congress. They can't even do it when they elect a president. So they're trying in the courts. It's our job to block them.
Sessions and Shumer
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Old 03-23-2005, 05:01 PM   #24
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See, this is what I'm talking about. We want to turn the clock back to the 1890s? Why should I believe anything that comes out of this guy's mouth? Enough with the over the top rhetoric already.


As long as we're quoting Schumer, here's more histrionics:

SEN CHARLES SCHUMER:
When I first started the campaign to keep right-wing judges off our federal courts, my friend Sen. John McCain came to me and said, "Chuck, I say this to you as a friend, not as a Republican or a conservative: Don't do this. When the right wing wants something, they will make your life miserable. Look at what they did to me in the South Carolina primary."
They forgot one thing, though. I'm from Brooklyn, and I love a fight.

Let the Senate Democrats know that they're not fighting George Bush and the reckless right wing of the Republican Party alone. Join us in this fight by signing our new petition today.

I will fight judges who pose a threat to our fundamental constitutional rights -- civil rights, women’s rights, labor rights, our right to a clean environment, and our right to basic civil liberties.
On Wednesday, a number of Senate Democrats, including me, spoke at a MoveOn PAC rally where hundreds of people gave up their lunch hour to join our efforts to stop George Bush's court-packing scheme. They are ready to join our fight against right-wing judges and I know you are too.

The radical right wing of the Republican Party thinks that their razor-thin election victory entitles them to a broad mandate. They want an America where the powerful get whatever they want and no one else has any rights. They are wrong.

The Senate Democrats are the last line of defense against their efforts to change the way America works. We have blocked their judges before and we won't let them succeed this time.

That's why the reckless right wing of the Republican Party is willing to resort to the so-called "nuclear option" -- another name for procedural tricks designed to prevent us from opposing their radical agenda. They are ready to turn the Senate -- what the founding fathers once called "the cooling saucer of democracy" -- into the rubber stamp of dictatorship. We won't let them wash away 200 years of checks and balances and you can be certain that we won't let them pack our courts with reactionary right-wing judges.
Join our fight today!

Reckless right-wing Republicans are willing to change the rules just because they don't like the score. We need your help today to protect our constitutional rights and to uphold our 200-year-old tradition of checks and balances.
Sincerely,

Senator Charles E. Schumer
Chairman, DSCC

I like this one:
"I will fight judges who pose a threat to our fundamental constitutional rights -- civil rights, women’s rights, labor rights, our right to a clean environment, and our right to basic civil liberties."
As if the constitution says anything about labor rights, rights to a clean environment, or a right to privacy (which he means when he says women's rights). I'm not saying there's no value in labor and environmental protections, they're just not rights guaranteed in the constitution.

I like this rhetoric too:
"On Wednesday, a number of Senate Democrats, including me, spoke at a MoveOn PAC rally where hundreds of people gave up their lunch hour to join our efforts to stop George Bush's court-packing scheme. They are ready to join our fight against right-wing judges and I know you are too. "

So now the executive responsibility of appointing federal judges is now a "court packing scheme". I see.

more:
"The radical right wing of the Republican Party thinks that their razor-thin election victory entitles them to a broad mandate. They want an America where the powerful get whatever they want and no one else has any rights. They are wrong."

Discussing the "radical" right wing with MoveOn.org. OK!

Razor thin election victory? Maybe the Bush victory, but not the 4 or 5 seats gained in the Senate, Chuck. You lost big time, you're in the minority, and that's why you're whining and making up BULLSHIT about no one having any rights.

And my favorite:
"That's why the reckless right wing of the Republican Party is willing to resort to the so-called "nuclear option" -- another name for procedural tricks designed to prevent us from opposing their radical agenda. They are ready to turn the Senate -- what the founding fathers once called "the cooling saucer of democracy" -- into the rubber stamp of dictatorship. We won't let them wash away 200 years of checks and balances and you can be certain that we won't let them pack our courts with reactionary right-wing judges. "

So the people elect a president and a Senate majority and that's what constitutes a dictatorship?

Who just washed away 200 years of non-filibustered Senate judicial confirmations?


Politicians suck. I'm sure there's plenty of Republican B.S. too but I think Bush hatred is fueling the production of huge steaming piles of BS from the Democrat side as of late.
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Old 03-23-2005, 05:08 PM   #25
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One of the judges that they nominated said,

"God's gift to white people was slavery."

A judge they nominated said the purpose of a man is to be subjugated to a woman.

A judge they nominated said there should be no zoning laws.
If someone wanted to build a factory right next to your home, that's a taking of property.

And a final one said there should be no labor laws, no minimum wage, no wages and hours, no worker protection laws, because those were all takings, unconstitutional takings.


Perhaps this appeals to you?

It does not appeal to me.

Keep blocking them!
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Old 03-23-2005, 05:09 PM   #26
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if the responsibility of appointing federal judges is used to appoint right wingers exclusively, thats very much a scheme.

also, have you ever heard something called 'the tyranny of the majority'? if majority has the right to do whatever they want, including screwing over the minority, that is no democracy in my opinion
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Old 03-23-2005, 05:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
One of the judges that they nominated said,

"God's gift to white people was slavery."
Can you provide the name of this nominee, the complete quote, and the context?

If this is true, that nominee would not be able to garner 51 votes in the Senate. The system would work. No need to filibuster this guy.

That being said, how Robert Byrd keeps being elected is a mystery to me.
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Old 03-23-2005, 05:18 PM   #28
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Did a MSN search on "God's gift to white people was slavery."

only 2 results, one was the Air America website.

I knew something was funny about this
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Old 03-23-2005, 05:18 PM   #29
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Gotta love Dr. Hark. Always stirring things up.

Have fun with all that, I'm going to enjoy this Frappacino.
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Old 03-23-2005, 05:31 PM   #30
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I hereby extend this thread to commentary or criticism on any recent "heap of steaming B.S." quote from any politician.

If I feel statements are defensible, I will defend.
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