Bono's stance on abortion and stem cell research - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

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Old 12-06-2004, 12:39 PM   #76
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Be serious. Our laws will always be based on the majority of public opinion, whether we like it or not. For example, if I were to buy a gun, walk next door, and shoot my next door neighbor, how many Americans would consider that murder and send me to jail? About 99%, right? The law reflects that. If I were to rape a child, or steal a car, or shoot the clerk at the liquor store, how many Americans would consider that a crime and send me to jail? About 99% right? The law reflects that as well.
I am serious.

And we are not a "might makes right" society. We have laws designed to protect the innocent or minority. Even if it goes against public opinion.

The majority of the public thinks abortion is wrong. The majority also thinks that it should be allowed. This inconsistency contridicts your argument entirely.

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The fact is that there is a huge disagreement in this country about abortion and whether it consititutes murder, a crime, or anything more than a woman making a personal health decision. Some even think that abortion is a positive decision. Just because I, based on my own RELIGIOUS beliefs, think it's wrong, doesn't mean that it should be outlawed for my neighbor who may not share those beliefs.

If you're a Christian, be anti-abortion and don't get an abortion. Be anti-adultery and don't cheat on your spouse. Be anti-gay and don't lie down with others of the same sex. Be anti-anything you want. But beware that you better not tell the rest of us what we can and cannot do based on YOUR own personal beliefs.
Saying killing babies is wrong is not a religious belief. You can easily argue that abortion is wrong without relying on religious arguments.
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Old 12-06-2004, 12:40 PM   #77
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bow: (Lovely image of Bono by the way!!)
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Old 12-06-2004, 12:42 PM   #78
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That last message for Angela!!
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Old 12-06-2004, 12:47 PM   #79
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can't agree. you've stated something very contraversial as fact: is a 6 week old fetus a child? you cannot equate child killing with abortion, since we do not consider a fetus a child.
Like my best friend's bumper sticker says, if it's not a baby, you're not pregnant.

If you are pregnant, there is a baby in there, and if it weren't alive and growing, why do you need to kill it to be rid of it? Therefore, a life IS being ended. If it weren't, you could just leave it in there and go on about your business as usual. This argument holds no water either.



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IOriginally posted by NBCrusader

Saying killing babies is wrong is not a religious belief. You can easily argue that abortion is wrong without relying on religious arguments
Once again, you are the man! That's exactly right.

My opinions are not based on religion but what I see as common sense right and wrong, life and death. After reading all the arguments here, it seems the only thing the pro abortion people keep screaming is that people should have a right to do whatever they want whenever they feel like it and no one should have to tell them they're wrong because they don't want to hear it. I have a 2 year old who throws tantrums based on that rationale. It's not good enough for me.
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Old 12-06-2004, 01:04 PM   #80
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Like my best friend's bumper sticker says, if it's not a baby, you're not pregnant.

If you are pregnant, there is a baby in there, and if it weren't alive and growing, why do you need to kill it to be rid of it? Therefore, a life IS being ended. If it weren't, you could just leave it in there and go on about your business as usual. This argument holds no water either.


then why does the word fetus exist? a scientific distinction is being made between a baby and a fetus -- you can argue the merit of that distinction, but it is there, and we create laws based upon the best scientific knowledge we have at the time, not on snappy sounding bumperstickers.
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Old 12-06-2004, 01:09 PM   #81
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One last time, and then I'm done debating this issue in this thread: pro-choice means just that: pro-CHOICE. I will support a woman if she chooses to put her baby up for adoption. I will support a woman if she chooses to keep her baby and raise it herself. I will support a woman if she chooses to have an abortion. And I will raise some serious hell if the woman who has an abortion forces other women to make the same choice she did, or if the woman who keeps her baby forces others to make the same choice she did, or if the woman who gave her baby up for adoption forces others to make the same choice she did, because it's not their place to force that kind of thing on another woman.

And I'm pro-choice in other areas, too. You want to personally keep a gun in your home, that's your choice. You want to smoke or drink, that's your choice. You want to not wear a seatbelt in your own car, that's your choice.
Where does my choice end? On what principle? Why do you let me choose some things but not others?

The choice argument is the most inconsistently applied principle of all.
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Old 12-06-2004, 01:09 PM   #82
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Originally posted by Irvine511



then why does the word fetus exist? a scientific distinction is being made between a baby and a fetus -- you can argue the merit of that distinction, but it is there, and we create laws based upon the best scientific knowledge we have at the time, not on snappy sounding bumperstickers.
Obviously you ignored the second part of my post. Here it is again:

If you are pregnant, there is a baby in there, and if it weren't alive and growing, why do you need to kill it to be rid of it? Therefore, a life IS being ended. If it weren't, you could just leave it in there and go on about your business as usual. This argument holds no water either.

If you are pregnant, there is a baby in there, and if it weren't alive and growing, why do you need to kill it to be rid of it? Therefore, a life IS being ended. If it weren't, you could just leave it in there and go on about your business as usual. This argument holds no water either.
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Old 12-06-2004, 01:14 PM   #83
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Originally posted by U2Kitten


If you are pregnant, there is a baby in there, and if it weren't alive and growing, why do you need to kill it to be rid of it? Therefore, a life IS being ended. If it weren't, you could just leave it in there and go on about your business as usual. This argument holds no water either.

you are stating that a fetus is a child, and many, many people, including many, many scientists don't agree. it may be life, in that it is composed of cells and organic matter, but it simply is not held to the same standards as a living, breathing 6 year old child.

it's called nuance, and we need to remove emotion from this in order to see these distinctions clearly. you may not agree with the nuance and distinction, but it is false to assert that they are not there is pretty bogus.
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Old 12-06-2004, 01:16 PM   #84
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If a beating heart and growing cells aren't enough to signify LIVE CREATURE to you, you're just trying to justify and rationalize this away as okay, and it's NOT okay.
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Old 12-06-2004, 01:18 PM   #85
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What I really don't like is all the politics about a fetus. What makes a 9 month old fetus any more important than a two week old? I have a friend who had a miscarriage, sad, but doctors said they could see the heart beat at two weeks.
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Old 12-06-2004, 01:19 PM   #86
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If a beating heart and growing cells aren't enough to signify LIVE CREATURE to you, you're just trying to justify and rationalize this away as okay, and it's NOT okay.
okay, i'm out. this is clearly too emotional for you, and i respect that. i just don't agree, and you don't seem to want to have a discussion.
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Old 12-06-2004, 01:22 PM   #87
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Don't want to have a discussion? I've posted more than anyone else in this thread. Everything I feel is here, and if you can believe it I have held back quite a bit of emotion. I feel I have made a complete argument, nothing left to say.
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Old 12-06-2004, 01:23 PM   #88
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Originally posted by Irvine511
you are stating that a fetus is a child, and many, many people, including many, many scientists don't agree. it may be life, in that it is composed of cells and organic matter, but it simply is not held to the same standards as a living, breathing 6 year old child.

it's called nuance, and we need to remove emotion from this in order to see these distinctions clearly. you may not agree with the nuance and distinction, but it is false to assert that they are not there is pretty bogus.
What is the event that takes place that turns non-life into life?
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Old 12-06-2004, 01:25 PM   #89
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What is the event that takes place that turns non-life into life?

many would argue that the viability of the fetus -- the ability to live and survive outside the womb of the mother -- becomes the point at which human life begins. we're not talking about life vs. non-life (those false choices you're very skillful at setting up) but embryonic life vs. human life.
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Old 12-06-2004, 01:26 PM   #90
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Anybody know where Bono stands on the issues of abortion and stem cell research? Just curious as he said something to the effect of 'God, religion & science are all the same thing' during the New York concert.
For anyone who doesn't remember, this is the post that started this thread, from wolfwill. I don't think poor wolfwill has even been back to check on it.

This thread has derailed, and badly. I'm not saying this is anyone's fault, in terms of an individual or a position, but I'm considering proposing a moratorium on abortion and gay marriage here in FYM for, say, six months or so because 1.) all we get is the same people, more or less; and 2.) they're all posting the same arguments, over and over. I, personally, am at the point where I (seriously) can't remember if the last thread I closed was abortion or gay marriage-related, because they're starting to all sound the same.

In the meantime, I think it's (already) time to put this one to bed. Again, derailed.
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