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Old 12-06-2004, 11:26 AM   #61
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My father wanted to abort me when my mother told him she was pregnant.

I didn't find this out until a few years ago... My parents are no longer married. To be honest I have a lot of something against him...I don't know to call it 'anger' or what...I never had a stellar relationship with him but I haven't called him Dad since finding this out (he doesn't know that I know) He didn't think I needed or deserved a chance...I'm glad someone did.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:37 AM   #62
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Originally posted by U2Kitten


Excuse me, but this isn't a haircut, nose job, tattoo or a body piercing. It's a life, someone else's life and body is involved- the baby! NO ONE should be able to choose death for another person. You inflict quite a bit on the unborn child, you rob him/her of life.
Of course....however I feel that someone who's been through an abortion would hate to be compared to a child rapist!! That's all!!
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:42 AM   #63
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Of course....however I feel that someone who's been through an abortion would hate to be compared to a child rapist!! That's all!!
You're worried about them being compared to a child rapist? Isn't a child killer a bad thing too?
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:42 AM   #64
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I don't think U2Kitten was nessacarily making a direct correlation there on her point.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:44 AM   #65
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Normal

LOL stars, thanks. I seriously have to get out of this discussion.

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Old 12-06-2004, 11:48 AM   #66
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I wonder why Bono has chimed in on this discussion, I mean this thread was about his apparent views. Huh, funny...
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:56 AM   #67
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Originally posted by U2Kitten


You're worried about them being compared to a child rapist? Isn't a child killer a bad thing too?
I only hope that neither you nor I are ever faced with the reality of abortion. Perhaps the language we use then wouldn't be quite so judgemental... ??
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Old 12-06-2004, 12:01 PM   #68
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Why is the "I'm against it, but others should be allowed" argument only used for abortion? If you truly believe that principle, then it should apply to other things, like child rape. A harsh example, but one that underscores that failings of the principle.
Be serious. Our laws will always be based on the majority of public opinion, whether we like it or not. For example, if I were to buy a gun, walk next door, and shoot my next door neighbor, how many Americans would consider that murder and send me to jail? About 99%, right? The law reflects that. If I were to rape a child, or steal a car, or shoot the clerk at the liquor store, how many Americans would consider that a crime and send me to jail? About 99% right? The law reflects that as well.

The fact is that there is a huge disagreement in this country about abortion and whether it consititutes murder, a crime, or anything more than a woman making a personal health decision. Some even think that abortion is a positive decision. Just because I, based on my own RELIGIOUS beliefs, think it's wrong, doesn't mean that it should be outlawed for my neighbor who may not share those beliefs.

If you're a Christian, be anti-abortion and don't get an abortion. Be anti-adultery and don't cheat on your spouse. Be anti-gay and don't lie down with others of the same sex. Be anti-anything you want. But beware that you better not tell the rest of us what we can and cannot do based on YOUR own personal beliefs.
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Old 12-06-2004, 12:05 PM   #69
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I salute your words of wisdom,LPU2.
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Old 12-06-2004, 12:08 PM   #70
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Old 12-06-2004, 12:08 PM   #71
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My girlfriend's parents tried to abort her as well, along with three of their other kids. If they lived in this country at the time (she's Filipino) I wouldn't be so lucky.
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Old 12-06-2004, 12:13 PM   #72
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Originally posted by u2lassie
only hope that neither you nor I are ever faced with the reality of abortion. Perhaps the language we use then wouldn't be quite so judgemental... ??
As a woman, a mother, and someone who has had a lot of hardship financially and emotionally, I cannot justify the death of an unborn child, sorry.

Quote:
Originally posted by LPU2
beware that you better not tell the rest of us what we can and cannot do based on YOUR own personal beliefs.
But, isn't that what all laws do, tell us what to do based on someone else's beliefs?

We can't leave things up to every single person's individual opinion, the world would be chaotic. We have to have laws to stop people from doing bad things, even if they have justified it in their minds that it's not bad, it still is!

You know people used to say the same things about SLAVERY?? They'd tell the abolitionists, "if you don't want slaves don't have them but don't deny me my right to have them!" and "it's my life, stay out of my personal business!" Well, thank goodness time proved how wrong and evil slavery really was, and how people were right to force their beliefs on slave owners!
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Old 12-06-2004, 12:25 PM   #73
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I'm not directing this at any one person or side; but, that said, can we have a peaceful discussion on this in FYM at all? BOTH sides are starting to get veeeeerrrrrry testy, and unless Bono actually pops in to give us his actual opinion here pretty soon, I'm going to close this thread for no other reason than it has derailed.
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Old 12-06-2004, 12:29 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by LPU2
Be serious. Our laws will always be based on the majority of public opinion, whether we like it or not. For example, if I were to buy a gun, walk next door, and shoot my next door neighbor, how many Americans would consider that murder and send me to jail? About 99%, right? The law reflects that. If I were to rape a child, or steal a car, or shoot the clerk at the liquor store, how many Americans would consider that a crime and send me to jail? About 99% right? The law reflects that as well.

The fact is that there is a huge disagreement in this country about abortion and whether it consititutes murder, a crime, or anything more than a woman making a personal health decision. Some even think that abortion is a positive decision. Just because I, based on my own RELIGIOUS beliefs, think it's wrong, doesn't mean that it should be outlawed for my neighbor who may not share those beliefs.

If you're a Christian, be anti-abortion and don't get an abortion. Be anti-adultery and don't cheat on your spouse. Be anti-gay and don't lie down with others of the same sex. Be anti-anything you want. But beware that you better not tell the rest of us what we can and cannot do based on YOUR own personal beliefs.
Thank you. And I would assume that the slavery argument would be answered with what u2lassie said, too (they were forcing people to do things against their will, which is why it's wrong. Same with rape, same with molestation, same with murder (and before anyone goes into abortion being murder again, I would suggest they reread LPU2's post regarding that point)). Also, to dandy's post, too.

One last time, and then I'm done debating this issue in this thread: pro-choice means just that: pro-CHOICE. I will support a woman if she chooses to put her baby up for adoption. I will support a woman if she chooses to keep her baby and raise it herself. I will support a woman if she chooses to have an abortion. And I will raise some serious hell if the woman who has an abortion forces other women to make the same choice she did, or if the woman who keeps her baby forces others to make the same choice she did, or if the woman who gave her baby up for adoption forces others to make the same choice she did, because it's not their place to force that kind of thing on another woman.

And I'm pro-choice in other areas, too. You want to personally keep a gun in your home, that's your choice. You want to smoke or drink, that's your choice. You want to not wear a seatbelt in your own car, that's your choice.

Okay. Now I'm done.

Angela
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Old 12-06-2004, 12:38 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I guess if you skip the killing of a child part, abortion would be different.

Anyways, the principle is the same.

can't agree. you've stated something very contraversial as fact: is a 6 week old fetus a child? you cannot equate child killing with abortion, since we do not consider a fetus a child. maybe we should, maybe we shouldn't (i think we shouldn't, for a variety of reasons), but to couch the issue in the terms you've just used is to set up a false choice.
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