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Old 02-16-2003, 05:05 PM   #106
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Pub Crawler,

My statement was in reference to many things including my personal life, yes a very general statement. You seem to have a very narrow focus on what being a pacifist or being a peaceful person means. I'll be the first to tell you that I am not a Pacifist. I defend the use of USA military force in every single war the USA has ever fought in because I believe it was just and necessary. I think the USA should of acted in Rawanda, but after Somalia, there was almost no political support in the USA to take action.

I don't think you are a Pacifist because you support military intervention in the Rawanda situation. A Pacifist is one who advocates pacifism. Pacifism is opposition to ALL war and armed hostility. But everyone is free to define where they stand, but the dictionary definition of a Pacifist is one that is opposed to all war no matter what the situation is.
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Old 02-16-2003, 05:19 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha

No matter how much you fuss about it, he ain't gonna say anything just to keep you happy.
I'd be obliged if you didn't refer to something that,for this or that
reason,has been of special importance to me as "fuss".
Thanks.
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Old 02-16-2003, 05:56 PM   #108
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You're probably aware that Bono is scheduled to be interviewed in NYC next month. It will be interesting if Iraq is brought up. I'm not saying that it should or whatever, so please don't draw your swords just yet.
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Old 02-16-2003, 07:14 PM   #109
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He's smart enough to know people would get tired of him if he stuck his nose into *every* angle of politics.
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Old 02-16-2003, 08:09 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawk269
To all,

Here is the bottom line. Bono has not said anything publicly about this war. You can interpret that fact any way you want.

My view, however, is that his silence says something. It says that he is certainly not against it enough to lobby politicians, governments, and people to stop it, when you know he could if he wanted to.

As Sting2 quoted him, Bono is not a pacifist and does see situations where you have to be aggressive in order to protect your people and way of life. I see this as being a situation where bombing Iraq protects our way of life from someone who clearly hates us.


AJ

Im w Hawk and Sting.

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never claimed to be

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Old 02-16-2003, 08:16 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by brianmcf
He's smart enough to know people would get tired of him if he stuck his nose into *every* angle of politics.

Absolutely. He doesn't want to become a twit. That's smart. Holy smokes, the liberals and conservatives actually agree on something!!!
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Old 02-16-2003, 08:17 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Im w Hawk and Sting.

Melon
Iam not Interference's Spelling Bee Champion.
nor have I ever claimed to be

However-
I do have the market cornered on satire and cynisim-sp .

thank u

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ah shit dble post
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Old 02-16-2003, 09:09 PM   #113
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"..there's no need to escalate
you see - war is not the answer
cause only love can conquer hate.."

- What's Goin On
December 2, 2001
Miami (final show)

One of the last things I personally heard Bono sing/say about war.
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Old 02-16-2003, 10:27 PM   #114
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Yes. You can make political statements that are implicit and not explicit. In other words, the lyrics are not going to be obviously political; they will be rather cryptic or unfocused or mysterious. They're working on an album. I'll bet they have at least one song about the war, but it's probably no SBS in terms of explicit/ implicit content. A song need not be SBS to be political. I love SBS but that was then, this is now.


*edited because I keep making stupid mistakes*
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Old 02-17-2003, 12:19 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Everyone that is not evil aspires to be a Pacifist...
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
[B] I'll be the first to tell you that I am not a Pacifist.
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Old 02-17-2003, 12:27 AM   #116
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One can aspire to be a pacifist and not be a pacifist.
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Old 02-17-2003, 12:37 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Pub Crawler,

I don't think you are a Pacifist because you support military intervention in the Rawanda situation. A Pacifist is one who advocates pacifism. Pacifism is opposition to ALL war and armed hostility. But everyone is free to define where they stand, but the dictionary definition of a Pacifist is one that is opposed to all war no matter what the situation is.
I never claimed to be a pacifist. I have only stated that I strive to be a pacifist. Here are the statements I've made in this thread with respect to my personal commitment to pacifism:

Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler
Yet, I STILL CONSIDER MYSELF SOMEONE WHO STRIVES TO BE A PACIFIST.
Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler
You're right. Bono says he is no longer a pacifist. If he supports bombing Iraq, then I disagree with him vehemently.
Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler

STING2, the ways in which I strive to be a pacifist are as follows:

(etc., etc.)
.........

My point being that, in my opinion, Rwanda was a very clear case where military intervention was needed. But even so, the question of how much force is a dilemma for a pacifistic person such as myself.

Again, I've only said that I strive to be a pacifist, that I am pacifistic, but not a pure PACIFIST. I don't think it's possible to be a pure pacifist, but let me explain. I would protect my family to the best of my ability if they were threatened. If I were in any situation where I could protect an innocent person who was being unjustly persecuted, I hope that I would do so. But let me be clear: to say that is impossible to be a "pure pacifist" doesn't mean that one should give up trying.
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Old 02-17-2003, 12:39 AM   #118
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read this and shut up...


That's a Saddam Lie!
U2 star Bono denies rumours that he is planning a face-face meeting with Iraqi dictator

The People, February 16, 2003


Eamonn O'Hanlon


Irish rock idol Bono is "spitting mad" over claims he is planning face-to-face talks with Saddam Hussein in a last-ditch bid to avert war in Iraq.

The U2 superstar, who took the unusual step of denying the rumours in a website message to fans, is said to feel under increasing pressure to take a stand on the war.

He has remained virtually silent on the issue since the current crisis began, despite forging ahead with a host of other political campaigns.

Hollywood bad boy Sean Penn is among those pressing the rocker to pledge his support for the anti-war movement following his own highly controversial trip to Baghdad last month.

Organisers of yesterday's massive anti-war rally in Dublin, who have managed to enlist the support of Irish stars such as Christy Moore, Hazel O'Connor, Mary Coughlan and Luka Bloom are also keen to gain Bono's support.

But pals say the star, who held talks with U.S. President George W. Bush at the White House last year on the AIDS epidemic sweeping Africa, is -- almost uniquely for him -- set to remain on the sidelines.

One source said: "Bono has firm views on a whole range of issues, from Third World debt to the future of the European Union.

"He has met world leaders and travelled thousands of miles all over the world promoting his causes.

"But even he is wary of over-extending himself.

"By trying to do too much, he is afraid he will end up doing nothing.

"He believes that the war on terror is one of the most important issues of our age, but has made virtually no public statement on the issue.

"He was furious when people started saying that he was on his way to Baghdad."

Other pals believe Bono is staying quiet to protect his "special relationship" with President Bush and other senior White House figures, including Secretary of State Colin Powell and the National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice.

His closeness to the Bush administration was underlined in the president's State of the Union address last month, when he recommended the U.S. Congress earmark $15 billion over the next five years to combat the AIDS crisis in Africa and the Caribbean.

The announcement came only days after Bono penned an impassioned article for the Washington Post, imploring Bush to divert extra funds to fighting AIDS, which he claimed was killing 6,500 people every day.

Bono later praised Bush's initiative, describing it as "bold" and "wholly welcome" and a "true shift" in U.S. policy in the face of a health crisis of "biblical proportions."

Pals say Bono was shaken when only days after this triumph reports started to surface about a possible one-man peace mission to Baghdad.

Kathy Kelly, one of the American human shields visited by Penn during his fact-finding trip to the Iraqi capital, claimed Bono was expected there within weeks to meet Saddam.

"Penn has been putting pressure on Bono to follow suit," she said.

"Apparently he's going to come."

The claims, which flew directly in the face of Bono's stated admiration for American political traditions, turned out to be unfounded.

The star, who is currently in Dublin working on a new U2 album, sealed his apparent love affair with the U.S. shortly before Christmas on an AIDS awareness tour of the American Midwest with actress Ashley Judd.

At the time he said he was overwhelmed by the goodwill he had encountered from the American people, while revealing plans for a new song paying tribute to "what's great about America."

The song, which he started writing while still on the road, is called "American Prayer" and will include lyrics borrowed from the "huddled masses" inscription on the Statue of Liberty.

In his only public statement on the war, Bono echoed Colin Powell by linking the impending conflict to the war on poverty.

Even then he kept his thoughts about the rights and wrongs of war firmly under wraps.

"Right now there's talk of war on Iraq -- but the war against terror is bound up in the war against poverty," he said recently.

"Who said that? The United States Secretary of State, Colin Powell.

"All the military men involved in this campaign know you can't win this war by military means alone."

Bono's near silence has puzzled many fans, who have grown accustomed to him taking the lead on political issues.

He once admitted in an interview with America's 60 Minutes current affairs show that he had politics in his blood.

"You can't escape politics if you're Irish," Bono said.

"It's like the two subjects you can't talk about anywhere else in the world: religion and politics.

"It's all that people talk about.

"I was taught that if my opinion was informed, I had the right to express it and not be afraid of who else was in the room.

"I'm going to be mouthing off anyway. That's who I am."


MGN Ltd., 2003.
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Old 02-17-2003, 12:40 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
One can aspire to be a pacifist and not be a pacifist.
Exactly. That would be me.
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Old 02-17-2003, 12:45 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
I'll be the first to tell you that I am not a Pacifist. I defend the use of USA military force in every single war the USA has ever fought in because I believe it was just and necessary.
That's where I take issue with you, STING2. You come across as a person who has an undying allegiance to the U.S. military, regardless of the way in which the military is being deployed. You don't ask questions.

So where are you aspiring to be a pacifist?
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