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Old 02-16-2003, 10:20 AM   #91
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the best part of the Oprah interview was when Mr Bono said...
.."lookey here, Im NOT some wingin LIBERAL ya know"......

In my mind's eye I saw many of my left minded friends from think tanks such as-

-The International Left Front
-Tree Huggers Annonomous
-Over Reactionary Drama Queens


cringe .

This brought me great joy as Oprah sat there, mesmerized.

I dont think anybody should attempt to typecast Bono, because frankly you cannot.

DB9
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Old 02-16-2003, 10:39 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees

There's always going to be an extent to which those of us who are anti-war just assume he's on our side, just as the pro-war lobby are going to find reasons to paint him as a hawk.
I beg do disagree. I have seen NO HAWK say Bono is on their side.

I believe Martha once started a thread about what we conservatives would say on issues with Bono in the room. I believe Bono, who is politically savy, is not going to judge or walk away from someone with a different opinion(within reason).

In my heart, I believe Bono has his own opinions, as I do mine. Does he have influence over me with hisopnions? Yes, I honestly believe he does. I will sit down and read about something that Bono speaks out on. It does not mean that I agree with him. I may very well, disagree even more.

AS I said earlier, he is a man, a HUMAN, and so are we. We all have opinions, right or wrong. Let up on him already. He does not walk on water.

PEACE
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Old 02-16-2003, 12:05 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
I'm sure Bono does think that war is a last resort and an unattractive alternative, but that it is sometimes necessary. Thats how I feel as well as does the Bush Administration. The question is when, is it the last resort at this point? Many people and the Bush administration feel that point has been reached while others do not.

If Bono has concluded that that point has not been reached yet, that just fine. Same though if he feels a military intervention of Iraq is needed now.
STING Im not going to discuss your timetable because you have been pushing for an invasion of Iraq for as long as I can remember, even while millions of others around the world ask for more time for due process.

But as for Bono, given that he was so willing to voice his opinion on the Afghanistan issue and in a few places, once all the facts and evidence were before him,I'm assuming that he isn't making a statement of support at this time because thus far there is a blatant lack of facts and evidence to support the conclusion that the last resort point has been reached.

Millions others feel the same way.

SOOO back to the original topic of this thread...

I don't personally find Bono's silence "strange" or "disappointing" at all.

I find it telling, in that, as another poster has pointed out, he realizes that there are far greater threats to human life on this planet than Iraq right now...like AIDS in Africa and so has chosen to concentrate on bringing that to the forefront.

After all, who will if he doesn't? CNN? Fox News?
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Old 02-16-2003, 01:17 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler
"STING2, in your opinion, how does one work toward becoming a pacifist?"
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Pub,

By being diplomatic and avoiding resorting to options that might include violence unless its absolutely necessary.
STING2, the ways in which I strive to be a pacifist are as follows:

1) I don't support war of any kind.

2) I never support bombing a country, and I am deeply troubled when I have the knowledge innocents might be killed due to a boming such as the apparently imminent U.S.-planned bombing of Iraq.

3) In instances of genocide, I might support a military intervention. In the case of the Rwandan genocide of 1994, I would have supported military intervention because every day during that holocaust several thousand innocent people were literally butchered with machetes. Rwandan children watched their parents being chopped to pieces, only to then be murdered themselves. And we, the free world, watched all this happen and did nothing.

Even in Rwanda, though, I would only have supported a very limited use of force via ground troops -- no indiscriminant bombing. Canadian Gen. Dalliare was in charge of U.N. forces in Rwanda at the time. He asked for 5,000 troops -- he said he could quell the massacres within days with that number of troops. He didn't get his troops. I believe he should have. I believe we should have gone in and jailed the "genocidaires," as they were called. I DON'T think we should have gone in and indiscriminately blown them away with artillery. We would have been stooping to their level of barbarism. We should only have used the force necessary to stop the senseless murders.

My point being that, in my opinion, Rwanda was a very clear case where military intervention was needed. But even so, the question of how much force is a dilemma for a pacifistic person such as myself.

All that said, let's re-examine your answer to the question I asked, i.e., How does one works toward becoming a pacifist?

Your answer: "By being diplomatic and avoiding resorting to options that might include violence unless its absolutely necessary."

STING2, my difficulty with your answer is that it is absolutely ambiguous.

Question: What does it mean to be "diplomatic?"

Question: When is violence absolutely necessary?

Frankly, with your history of hawkish posting, I am astonished by your admission that you are striving to be a pacifist. That is why I am so curious about your statements about pacifism.

Here's the issue: If you're going to stick with the definition of pacifism you've given, then by that definition you're free to behave in any manner you so choose and you can still define yourself as a pacifist.

I'd be interested to hear what specifically makes you a person who is striving to be a pacifist.
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Old 02-16-2003, 02:00 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

AS I said earlier, he is a man, a HUMAN
Excuse me,it doesn't take a superhuman to leave a short message on your own website.
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Old 02-16-2003, 02:09 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by gabrielvox

I find it telling, in that, as another poster has pointed out, he realizes that there are far greater threats to human life on this planet than Iraq right now...
Right now the people in Iraq are in great danger of being attacked,is it a less threat to human life? Of course that doesn't diminish Africa's troubles,but how can you possibly care about one
and completely ignore the other? There're the same children in
Iraq as in Africa.

Btw,Follower,thanks for the link on the first page.
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Old 02-16-2003, 02:29 PM   #97
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To all,

Here is the bottom line. Bono has not said anything publicly about this war. You can interpret that fact any way you want.

My view, however, is that his silence says something. It says that he is certainly not against it enough to lobby politicians, governments, and people to stop it, when you know he could if he wanted to.

As Sting2 quoted him, Bono is not a pacifist and does see situations where you have to be aggressive in order to protect your people and way of life. I see this as being a situation where bombing Iraq protects our way of life from someone who clearly hates us.


AJ
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Old 02-16-2003, 03:05 PM   #98
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Actually, Bono is affiliated with at least one group that has an anti-war position, and that's Oxfam. I should know, I've been circulating an Oxfam anti-war petition on the Internet. I wore an Oxfam t-shirt to the demonstration yesterday. Perhaps he just wants Oxfam to be the messenger without him necessarily being a fellow messenger. Sometimes it pays to be subtle rather than explicit. Shakespeare said that discretion was the better part of valor, and I think he was right.
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Old 02-16-2003, 03:18 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawk269


My view, however, is that his silence says something. It says that he is certainly not against it enough to lobby politicians, governments, and people to stop it, when you know he could if he wanted to.
AJ

You assume two things.

1. That his silence is implicit approval for the actions of the US.

2. That his lobbying could somehow stop our president from going to war.


Both of these assumptions tell more about you than they do about a pop star who hasn't said a word either way.
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Old 02-16-2003, 03:19 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aine


Excuse me,it doesn't take a superhuman to leave a short message on your own website.
The horse is dead. Stop beating it. No matter how much you fuss about it, he ain't gonna say anything just to keep you happy.
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Old 02-16-2003, 03:30 PM   #101
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I've never even wondered for a moment what Bono thinks of the Iraq situation or thought it odd that he hasn't spoken out about it. I love him and the band but I guess I just don't spend a lot of time wondering what they think about everything. It's really his business when and why he chooses to voice a political opinion.
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Old 02-16-2003, 03:41 PM   #102
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl
I've never even wondered for a moment what Bono thinks of the Iraq situation or thought it odd that he hasn't spoken out about it. I love him and the band but I guess I just don't spend a lot of time wondering what they think about everything. It's really his business when and why he chooses to voice a political opinion.

Yes. Now we know why he isn't interested in political office. He's a singer not a professional politician.
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Old 02-16-2003, 03:47 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

In my mind's eye I saw many of my left minded friends from think tanks such as-

-The International Left Front
-Tree Huggers Annonomous
-Over Reactionary Drama Queens
First off, it is "anonymous." Second, "Front" usually is a word that extreme-right groups will call themselves. Third, "reactionary" is a term for conservatives. If you are talking about the extreme left, use the word "radical." Fourth, you really didn't have to say "drama queens."

I think you've been perfectly over-dramatic yourself, Mr. Diamond...

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Old 02-16-2003, 03:51 PM   #104
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I don't know. If he wants to speak out, he will. If he doesn't, he won't.
Would him going either way change the way you feel about this?

Personally I wouldn't be so sure that him being quiet necessarily means he supports the attack on Iraq, but that's just me.
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Old 02-16-2003, 04:28 PM   #105
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Personally, I've never hugged a tree. The damn things are too big for that.
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