Bono's silence is strange and disappointing

[STING2]

Gabrielvox,

You continue to fail to understand somethings. My posting history and any assertions you make based on that about me personally is not something that is to be done in Free Your Mind. Were not to engage in personal characterizations of other people unless of course a member is being personally attacked or slandered in some way in which case that person has a right to respectfully defend themselves and notify the mods.

"I could easily say that I find it offensive when people say that due to my posting history, Im a peacenik who is completely out of touch with the realities of the brutal world we live in. But in the end all it is just some internet posters opinion of me, like does it really matter??"

Yes it does, thats why people have been banned from FYM in the past. Elvis has made many statements in regard to this type of behavior.

I'm not going to mention to the Mods about Pub Crawler because he has never done this before. I only informed the Mods about your behavior because you continued to engage in that behavior on a repeated basis. I realize that have not recently though and I appreciate that.

"But don't threaten me, it is neither your right or place as you are not a mod, I took notice of the real mod's warnings earlier and have since conducted myself accordingly."

I'm not threatening you. I'm warning you, myself, and anyone else that reads these boards. I don't want to be banned and I don't want you or anyone else to get banned either. I enjoy reading everyones post including yours except when people start to get personal. Thats not what this forum is for. We have to try and be humble and respectful of other people regardless of their opinion on a particular political issue.

"Since you are so big on the principles of Free Your Mind, in what way has your mind been freed? I personally have noticed a decided shift in some of my own very strongly held opinions, while I can say that from what I've read of your posts over the last year or so, your opinions haven't changed. So are you simply here to help us free our minds? Isn't THAT a rather disrespectful presumption"

Again, why do you turn everything into a personal situation. Free Your Mind is about freely debating various topics. Its not meant to observe other peoples postings and then make uninformed personal observations about those people. Its been specifically stated that behavior in FYM is not to be tolerated. I'm hear to respectfully debate various political topics. I'm not hear to offend other people personally because they have a different political view point from me, or to make assumptions that they are narrow minded. Free Your Mind is for friendly and respectful debate on a wide number of topics.

To answer one of your questions though, I have made changes in my views on certain things and actually done more research into certain topics because of information posted by someone else. But again, this is a friendly discussion area, no more, no less. I'm not about to call out and attack someone as being narrowminded just because they have held to a particular view point on a particular topic. That is not what Free Your Mind is about. People have every right to express their view points here without being accused of being narrow minded or having to deal with some other personal remark from someone else.

 

[gvox]

You said it....not me....

Guess we all have our buttons...mine is my name, granted...but I have personal reasons for that..

You could call me a dimwitted ing hole tell me Im completely mad, need help, seek a therapist, get a clue, go off etc and I wouldnt run to the mods. Now dont all line up to call me those things...lol..

Just dont mess wit tha name yo......

 

[gvox]

STING2,

Go run around the block and release some steam. Now your going to report me for disagreeing with you alleging another person's 'slander', but not even report the alleged 'slander'?? That's rich. Good luck.




ANYWAYS, back to the topic at hand:

Go Bono! I hope you were there on the weekend!

WOO HOO!

 

[STING2]

Pub Crawler,

I'm all for free debate and challenging others statements, but not in a way that is personal. Debates that degenerate into a personal slugfest become meaningless and irrelevant. Its also against policy here at FYM and I don't want to do something thats offensive and get banned as others have in the past.

As to the question and my general answer, I guess I could go into more detail, but I'm not sure will ever be in full agreement on what it constitutes. Everyones opinion on that is probably a little different. When I answer that question, I do so from first a personal perspective as with my dealings with people in everyday life. I think some people only look at it from an international or national perspective. I try to encompass everything, but I start first with my own personal behavior.

 

[martha]

slander me

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


Nice use of the buzzword of the day!!!!!!

Too bad I didn't do it. I pointed out some observations about the things you said. MY observations.


Sorry. Better luck next time. Rest assured, though, that I will not be baited into an argument like the other one going on here.


I need to go take my chocolate chip muffins out of the pan.


I sure hope Bono was at that protest!!

 

[Angela Harlem]

Please enough of this slander and pacifism debate. Continue it off the forums in private, or if anyone has a complaint, please make it to one of the mods, or report the posts you think are offensive. It is too far off topic to continue, and while its one thing to challenge someone's view, to attack them is not on.
If anyone wants to take this further, please feel free, but just not in here.
Thankyou.

 

[Sicy]

I see gabrielvox and STING2 have not listened to my warnings.

 

[hiphop]

STING2. You haven?t answered to my question above.

How can you still support a President that damages the foreign diplomatic relations of your country? President G.W. Bush is doing evil to the United States. Is this for what he?s been elected? Is this the duty of an American President?

How can you support this President when around 100 million people worldwide in about 70 different nations worldwide protest against his policies? He is definitely doing no good to the perception of The United States.

 

[Dreadsox]

Angela.....Is that you?

Angela?

 

[Angela Harlem]

Is Insane Hair Dude better than Irate Guy then?

 

[Dreadsox]

It scares me in a different kind of way!

HEHE!!!

 

[Angela Harlem]

 

[verte76]

Please enough of this slander and pacifism debate. Continue it off the forums in private, or if anyone has a complaint, please make it to one of the mods, or report the posts you think are offensive. It is too far off topic to continue, and while its one thing to challenge someone's view, to attack them is not on.
If anyone wants to take this further, please feel free, but just not in here.
Thankyou.

I agree. I might hang around in this forum after all *if* the stuff stops. I'm not going to call anyone a . No one else should either. Thanks, Sicy.

 

[STING2]

HIPHOP,

"How can you still support a President that damages the foreign diplomatic relations of your country? President G.W. Bush is doing evil to the United States. Is this for what he?s been elected? Is this the duty of an American President?"

"How can you support this President when around 100 million people worldwide in about 70 different nations worldwide protest against his policies? He is definitely doing no good to the perception of The United States."

First off, I do not see the President damaging the foreign diplomatic relations of the country. The USA has a lot of support around the world from various countries. Eastern Europe, Turkey, Kuwait, other Gulf States, Australia, United Kingdom, Italy, Spain, and Portugal are supporting the USA. As President he is doing what he needs to do to provide security for the country and the international community from the huge threat that is posed by Saddam and his WMD programs.

I've seen plenty of protest before and several million people marching is definitely a large number. But its a vocal minority that are actually in the streets. I respect them and their views but I disagree with them as does the President and the US Congress and the majority of American People.

The latest CNN/TIME/GALLOP poll shows that 57% of Americans support George Bush in leading a coalition of the willing to disarm Iraq. Iraq must be disarmed as it has been obligated to do by UN resolutions and the 1991 Gulf War CEACE FIRE AGREEMENT.

Where is the protest and outrage against Saddam? If Saddam would simply comply with the ceacefire agreement that he agreed to honor in 1991, there wouldn't be a problem. Saddam has had the opportunity to kill 1.7 million people over the past 24 years. Should the world community let Saddam achieve the capacity to kill 10 times that many in a matter of minutes? I don't think so. No one in history has been given more time to comply with resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules than Saddam.

Unfortunately, the one world leader that gets the biggest kick out this past weeks protest is Saddam. Probably makes him feel warm and fuzzy inside. It makes him believe that he can outlast the US efforts to disarm him there by making war even more likely. The only chance of Saddam disarming peacefully is if he truely believes he is going to be taking out.

 

[Salome]

Where is the protest and outrage against Saddam?

that's what I have been wondering lately

 

[verte76]

HIPHOP, Where is the protest and outrage against Saddam? If Saddam would simply comply with the ceacefire agreement that he agreed to honor in 1991, there wouldn't be a problem. Saddam has had the opportunity to kill 1.7 million people over the past 24 years. Should the world community let Saddam achieve the capacity to kill 10 times that many in a matter of minutes? I don't think so. No one in history has been given more time to comply with resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules than Saddam.

Unfortunately, the one world leader that gets the biggest kick out this past weeks protest is Saddam. Probably makes him feel warm and fuzzy inside. It makes him believe that he can outlast the US efforts to disarm him there by making war even more likely. The only chance of Saddam disarming peacefully is if he truely believes he is going to be taking out.

For the record, I hate Saddam too. I have my doubts as to whether or not a war will actually kick him out. If I didn't have these doubts I'd support the war. I supported strikes in Bosnia, Kosovo, and Afghanistan, so I'm not a total pacifist. Unfortunately, the strikes in the former Yugoslavia didn't kick out Slobodon Milosevic, as much as I wanted them to. This didn't happen until Serbia had a botched political election, which elected a new President, Kustinica, who took office, sacked the , and sent him to the Hague where he belongs. I hate dictators with a passion, but they are really hard nuts to crack. Truly disgusting.

 

[hiphop]

HIPHOP,

"How can you still support a President that damages the foreign diplomatic relations of your country? President G.W. Bush is doing evil to the United States. Is this for what he?s been elected? Is this the duty of an American President?"

"How can you support this President when around 100 million people worldwide in about 70 different nations worldwide protest against his policies? He is definitely doing no good to the perception of The United States."

First off, I do not see the President damaging the foreign diplomatic relations of the country. The USA has a lot of support around the world from various countries.

I've seen plenty of protest before and several million people marching is definitely a large number. But its a vocal minority that are actually in the streets. I respect them and their views but I disagree with them as does the President and the US Congress and the majority of American People.

Where is the protest and outrage against Saddam?

Unfortunately, the one world leader that gets the biggest kick out this past weeks protest is Saddam. Probably makes him feel warm and fuzzy inside.

I didn?t say he was damaging all the diplomatic relations to every country. That would be a hard task to follow. I think Germany, France, China and Russia (apart from NK and some Arab states which seems logical) are enough disturbance for those few months to say Bush has seriously damaged the foreign diplomatic relations.

But you are right, who knows what else Bush is able to destroy? Maybe he is able to disturb the diplomatic relations to Andorra too, what do I know.

Those are about the biggest protests ever, given the number of people and number of states they?re part of. I don?t give that much for polls, you know, polls change every week.

100 millions of people should be more than enough, and you can?t seriously think that 3 billions of people (more of the half of the world population) should be on the street to acquire the right of some changes of foreign policy of the worlds most influential political leader. After all, around 100 million is a pretty good part (around 30%?) of the number of the US population, isn?t it?

Like I said, most part of the protesters are agreeing Saddam is cruel, but don?t agree with the way Bush wants to remove him from power.

Surely Saddam watches the protests with great delight and feels all "warm and fuzzy" inside?. Excuse me. I think he doesn?t give a shit. If he?s feeling warm and fuzzy for anything, its for the oil reserves "his" country holds - see next thread.

 

[STING2]

HIPHOP,

If Saddam doesn't give a shit about protestors why does his government encourage them to come to Baghdad? Why do they allow people to come into their country to be "human shields"? Saddam gives a shit, because he like you, does not want to see a US military invasion of Iraq to disarm him or remove him from power. Saddam knows the only thing that can disarm him or overthrow him is a US invasion of Iraq. Any attempt to block or frustrate US efforts to do this is something Saddam feels good about. Saddam is smart enough to recognize that if he can manipulate public opinion in the democracies around the world, he can prevent an invasion that will overthrow or disarm him. He goes after the governments to by offering favorable oil contracts to France and Russia, two members with veto power on the UN Security Council. Saddam and his sons probably spent part of last weekend watching the protest and laughing about what they think is their success in manipulation.

Perhaps it is the French, Germans, Russians, and Chinese that are damaging foreign relations.

The US congress and people will determine what the Bush administration decides to do. The Congress has already authorized Bush to use force. The current poll shows that a majority of Americans support the use of force with a coalition of the willing, even if the UN does not approve. More than 2/3s of Americans found Powells speach convincing. The number of people that protested in the USA was not a record in more along the lines of the vocal minority that normally engages in such protest.

I give elections and scientific polling more credence over unofficial crowd numbers. There was no way accurately to determine the number of people who protested last weekend, the vast majority of whom were outside the USA.

The USA and other countries have every right to do everything in their power to defend themselves. If Saddam does not disarm peacefully, the USA will lead a coalition of the willing to disarm him, in compliance with UN Security Council resolutions and the 1991 Gulf War Ceacefire Agreement.

 

[hiphop]

Like I have often said, attack is not the same like defense. STING2. You, being a military expert, should know the difference!

 

[hiphop]

And sure enough it must be the four other permanent members of the Sec Council who damage foreign relations - not the one permanent member that actually fights to persuade everyone to go to war. Very logical.

 

[STING2]

HIPHOP,

Iraq attacked Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Israel, its own people. It has failed to comply with the resolutions in regards to its invasion of Kuwait. It has failed to comply with the terms of the Gulf War Ceacefire agreement. There were several conditions that Iraq had to meet in that ceacefire agreement because of its previous violations. Enforcing Iraq's compliance with those conditions is not an attack, but act of self defense, especially in light of Iraq's previous behavior.

 

[STING2]

Actually there are two permanent members on the Security Council who still care about enforcing resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules. They are the USA and the United Kingdom. Nearly 1/4 of the British military has deployed to Kuwait.

 

[verte76]

For the record, I'm not interested in white-washing Saddam Hussein. The guy is a crud. I'm not positive a war will take him out. The first one didn't of course. Two wars didn't take Slobodan Milosevic out in Serbia. He got his kicked out of Serbia after a botched political election, which elected a new president, and Serbian anger over a botched economy, etc, etc, got him sent to the Hague where he'd belonged for years. If I felt sure a war in Iraq would take the out of power I'd support it. There have been reports that the Kurdish leaders are angry over U.S. democratization plans. I can't vouch for the reliability of these reports; perhaps they are not true. The guy is indeed a .

 

[hiphop]

Enforcing Iraq's compliance with those conditions is not an attack, but act of self defense, especially in light of Iraq's previous behavior.

STING2, you disappoint me. I thought you were an expert on those matters...

I?ve posted another thread about this issue.

 

[Dreadsox]

I am disappointed that once again a thread has deteriorated into arguments about UN Resolutions.

FYM is starting to get very boring.

I am willing to bet a large McDonald French Fry that somehow the thread title *Awaits Another Pharmacological Disaster* turns into an argument about the UN Charter.

GIve it a rest everyone, my GOD this was supposed to be about BONO!!!!!

 

[BAW]

Okay, maybe we can steer this thing back on topic...did anyone ever hear if Bono really was at the Dublin demonstration or was that tabloid rumor?

 

[verte76]

Okay, maybe we can steer this thing back on topic...did anyone ever hear if Bono really was at the Dublin demonstration or was that tabloid rumor?

I'm assuming it's true. If it hadn't been true it would have been denied, and it wasn't. I apologize for getting mixed up in the OT Iraq controversy.

 

[verte76]

I am disappointed that once again a thread has deteriorated into arguments about UN Resolutions.

FYM is starting to get very boring.

I am willing to bet a large McDonald French Fry that somehow the thread title *Awaits Another Pharmacological Disaster* turns into an argument about the UN Charter.

GIve it a rest everyone, my GOD this was supposed to be about BONO!!!!!

LMAO!!!! Again, my apologies for getting involved in an inappropriate discussion. I haven't been posting in this forum very long. I'm embarrassed.

 

[Dreadsox]

LMAO!!!! Again, my apologies for getting involved in an inappropriate discussion. I haven't been posting in this forum very long. I'm embarrassed.

Good grief...don't be at all. It's all good

 

[verte76]

Good grief...don't be at all. It's all good

OK, cool. I'll figure out this forum eventually.