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Old 02-15-2003, 05:25 PM   #46
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Sting,

Thanks for your reply,but actually we were talking about two completely different things:Bosnia,1/2 1990s (I remember what Bono did back then)and Serbia 1999.
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Old 02-15-2003, 05:28 PM   #47
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Gabrielvox,

I realize there are many people who are not pacifist who are against military intervention in Iraq.

But certainly if BONO was a true blue Pacifist in every respect, he would definitely be against a military intervention in Iraq. Many hear assume Bono is a true blue Pacifist, which means he opposes all military intervention under any circumstances. Thats a false assumption, based on his expressed support for US military intervention in Bosnia and Afghanistan.

I did not support any innocent civlians being killed in
Afghanistan nor the deaths of the Canadians from Friendly fire. No one in the US military or the Bush administration supports that either. Bono is aware of the risk of military intervention and Knew ahead of time that accidents and mistakes would happen as they have happened in every other war that has been fought.

In the 2001 Year End Issue of HOT PRESS, and Irish Publication, Bono went out of his way to say that the Bush administration policy up to that time was right on the money and he had fully supported everything the Bush had done up to that time, December 2001.

I'm sure Bono does think that war is a last resort and an unattractive alternative, but that it is sometimes necessary. Thats how I feel as well as does the Bush Administration. The question is when, is it the last resort at this point? Many people and the Bush administration feel that point has been reached while others do not.

If Bono has concluded that that point has not been reached yet, that just fine. Same though if he feels a military intervention of Iraq is needed now.

Either way, since he has yet to speak up on the issue, no one knows how he feels.
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Old 02-15-2003, 05:35 PM   #48
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and nor should it really matter. i mean it does matter, but hes just a man, just one person like everyone else.
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Old 02-15-2003, 05:35 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Pub Crawler,

Read "Until The End Of The World" by Bill Flanegan. Find a library that might have a back issue of the 2001 year end issue of HOT PRESS with BONO on the cover. It is a verfiable fact. I have not projected any of my beliefs on BONO, I have merely gone by what the man has said on these events and about being a Pacifist.
STING2, I've read Flanagan's book. It was a great read. I didn't walk away from it thinking that Bono is not a pacifist. In fact, whatever he said about his political beliefs in that book mustn't have been all that startling, because I don't remember what he said. If he would have made a revelation that I would have considered shocking (for me), I would have remembered it.


Quote:
"Supporting the "War on Terror" and supporting the bombing of Iraq are two different things."

I've not stated that BONO in any way supports a military intervention in Iraq!!!!!!!!

At the same time, he has not said anything to suggest he is against it either!!!!!
Great. On this point we can agree.

Quote:
I simply brought up the verifiable facts that Bono is not a Pacifist by his own admition and that he has supported US military intervention in other places around the world.
Remember what Bono said on Larry King. I'd like you to show me the quote where Bono has unequivocally stated that he is not a pacifist. WHAT EXACTLY DID HE SAY IN HOT PRESS???

Quote:
Yes Bono aspires to be a Pacifist. Everyone that is not evil
aspires to be a Pacifist as well. [/B]
I'd beg to differ with you on that one, STING. I just don't see any evidence to support your statement here.


*edited to fix tags
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Old 02-15-2003, 05:40 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flag Pole Pear

about the goose-step, when will the american militairy be incorporating that into their victory marches in foreign countries? theyre on quite the world conquest, it would only make sense if they looked sharp while on parade.
Flag Pole Pear.

That statement is quite unfair. There were a lot of current and prior military at the march today, as well as several guardsmen. Just because the Administration, whom I totally disagree with and think should be removed from office, are rushing to war the men and women who serve in the military aren't facist. They don't deserve that view. They are doing there job and leaving their families also. What is the alternative for them? Treason, awol? I've met many military people living near an Army, Air Force, and Navy base and have never personally met an enlisted person eager to kill.
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Old 02-15-2003, 05:43 PM   #51
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I'm afraid Bono doesn't care much about that part of the world. the closest U2 has ever played to the middle east was in Israel. they didn't even go to UAE where they would be welcomed like all the other rockstars that have had concerts there.
i agree bono doesn't owe us anything, but when he has been so politically involved and active in world matters, he put himself in spotlight and people expect him to offer an opinion at least of what is going on. after all this is the BIGGEST thing right now.
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Old 02-15-2003, 05:52 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flag Pole Pear
about the goose-step, when will the american militairy be incorporating that into their victory marches in foreign countries? theyre on quite the world conquest, it would only make sense if they looked sharp while on parade.
not cool bear.
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Old 02-15-2003, 06:16 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by arw9797
Why do need to know what any of them think about anything outside of the music they create? Would you suddenly stop listening to them if one of them said something that goes against your own beliefs? I highly doubt it.
Actually, I would. And I'm not talking about war in Iraq or anything this thread is about, but if someone in the band were to suddenly start talking some really serious sexist or racist shit, then yeah, that would seriously affect my ability to listen to their music.


Fortunately, I have no worries about that ever happening.
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Old 02-15-2003, 06:31 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine

I've met many military people living near an Army, Air Force, and Navy base and have never personally met an enlisted person eager to kill.
Scarletwine,

Thank you for that statement. I have said goodbye to a member of my wedding party this week. We served in the military together. There are three things keeping me from enlisting in my house, my wife, and my children. They are also the three reasons that make me want to serve again. It tears at me that someone else is stepping up to the plate for me.

You and I may not agree on the issues, but you have always been respectful. Others who post here have as well. What many people do not understand, is that these men and women do a job for us.

For all of the protesting that went on today in our own country and others I am proud. I am proud of the people who served in the past to give us all that right. I am proud that I was a part of the armed forces of my country. Looking at the people protesting made me proud. They may not be supporting what I believe, but thank god we live in a place where we can disagree and still be able to participate in the democratic process.

To those who slander my country and the people who put their lives on the line for us all, you seem to think that we have little respect for life, and make sickening statements about us........I know the people who I have served with would still put their lives on the line for you, despite your God awful comments.


PEACE
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Old 02-15-2003, 06:34 PM   #55
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This thread, makes me sad for Bono. Can you immagine the pressure of trying to be all things to all people. Let the man make his poetry. Let the man choose what battles he wants to fight. He does not owe it to his fans to come out and make statements on every single cause or crisis that comes down the path.

HE IS NOT GOD. Let him be the man that he is.
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Old 02-15-2003, 06:46 PM   #56
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I agree, Dread. I'm just here to argue the definition of "pacifist."
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Old 02-15-2003, 06:52 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

HE IS NOT GOD. Let him be the man that he is.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And your first post was EXCELLENT, I couldn't agree more. I am not in favor of a war w/ Iraq, but I'll be damned if I would EVER degrade any of our men and women in uniform. I've known a few, and to make sweeping generalizations about them is so unfair.

That "goose-step" comment, I'll second that-not cool I thought that sort of reference was frowned upon around here...
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Old 02-15-2003, 07:22 PM   #58
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pub crawler,

Well after some quick research into the articles I have recently sited, it appears I was both wrong and right. I was wrong to think that Bono was never at any point in his life a true blue Pacifist. I thought he was very much anti-violence and war in most situations, but not a full fledge pacifist.

It appears what happened is that Bono was a full fledged pacifist during the 80s, but this changed because of the crises in the former Yugoslavia which began in June 1991.

The following qoutes taken from "Until The End Of The World" page 285 and HOT PRESS 2002 ANNUAL issue, page 81, show that while Bono used to be a Pacifist, he no longer is.

"Until The End Of The World" page 285

This in regards to the continueing war in Bosnia in the summer of 1993. Just recently the USA had suggested intervening militarily in the conflict, but were unable to get Europe at the time to go along. The USA would go in anyways two years later. But back to the summer of 1993 and what Bono said.

From the book:

( Bono heads back outside to continue his recruiting drive. "I'm involved with a group", he says, "that sends food and supplies in there. And you know, this guy Bill Carter got to me tonight. He said, 'That's all right, but you're feeding a graveyard.' As a pacifist it is hard for me to justify sending arms to anybody, but God, if these people are being slaughtered you have to at least let them defend themselves."

Bill Carter explained to us earlier that the Bosnian situation has completely fallen apart since May, when Europe rejected U.S. efforts to organize NATO intervention. "It's just wholesale murder now," Carter said. "They know no one's coming to the rescue."

That image is driving Bono to distraction. "For once the U.S. had it right," Bono declares, " and Europe fucked it up! The U.S. wanted to go in and the English wouldn't agree with the French and the French couldn't agree-")

Clearly while Bono may have been a Pacifist, he is above supporting US military intervention that would of course involved bombing and colateral damage. He may state that he is a Pacifist above, but he in fact is not since he supports a military solution for the Bosnian conflict. 2 years later the U.S. would do just that in September 1995 bringing the war in Bosnia to an end and saving hundreds of thousands of lives.


Now fast forward to December 2001.

HOT PRESS ANNUAL 2002, on the newstand in January 2002. Page 81.

Question from the interviewer:

But is that going to change their(USA) sense of the role they should play in the world? If you look at what's going on now in Afghanistan, you wouldn't interpret that as being the case.

BONO's response:

"Aside from the fact that the media has had very little access, and thats unnerving, I don't think historically the way this campaign has been waged against terror will be seen as anything other than a success in terms of the least loss of human life and a certain measuredness, which most of the world weren't expecting from the United States. And reading the New York Times report of the fall of Kabul and journalists walking around, there's hardly any civilian targets hit. That was kind of miraculous. Any civilian target hit is unacceptable. BUT I USED TO BE A PACIFIST. I'M NO LONGER A PACIFIST- and not because I don't want to be, but because I can't live up to it in my own life. Its a source of deep sadness to me that I can't. If somebody was threatening my wife and my kids I would not turn the other cheek and it's patently clear to anyone living in New York or London or Los Angeles or Chicago that in a matter of months, and certainly years, whole corners of their cities were about to be taken out...whether it's chemicals or dirty nuclear devices, whatever they're calling them. SO I DON'T SEE ANY ALTERNATIVE TO WHAT THEY'VE DONE."



So there you go, Bono used to be a pacifist but is clearly not anymore. He started to change his position in the early 90s. He supported US military intervention in Bosnia and totally supports US military intervention in Afghanistan and Bush's war on terrorism at least up to January 2002.

How Bono feels about military intervention to solve the problem with Saddam is unkown.
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Old 02-15-2003, 07:23 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler:
Remember what Bono said on Larry King. I'd like you to show me the quote where Bono has unequivocally stated that he is not a pacifist. WHAT EXACTLY DID HE SAY IN HOT PRESS???
The Bono interview STING2 is refering to is available on the links below:

Part 1: http://www.atu2.com/news/article.src...ear=2001&Cat=5
Part 2: http://www.atu2.com/news/article.src...ear=2001&Cat=5

Here is the Q & A on the aspect of pacifism, although gabrielvox already cleared it up with his quotes from Larry King show.

"But is that going to change their sense of the role they should in the world? If you look at what's going on now in Afghanistan, you wouldn't interpret that as being the case."

Aside from the fact that the media has had very little access, and that's unnerving, I don't think historically the way this campaign has been waged against terror will be seen as anything other than a success in terms of the least loss of human life and a certain measuredness, which most of the world weren't expecting from the United States. And reading the New York Times report of the fall of Kabul and journalists walking around, there's hardly any civilian targets hit. That was kind of miraculous. Any civilian target hit is unacceptable. But I used to be a pacifist. I'm no longer a pacifist -- and not because I don't want to be, but because I can't live up to it in my own life. It's a source of deep sadness to me that I can't. If somebody was threatening my wife and my kids I would not turn the other cheek and it's patently clear to anyone living in New York or London or Los Angeles or Chicago that in a matter of months, and certainly years, whole corners of their cities were about to be taken out...whether it's chemicals or dirty nuclear devices, whatever they're calling them. So I don't see any alternative to what they've done.
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Old 02-15-2003, 07:28 PM   #60
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Well, as you can see, STING2 and me sometimes think alike I mean, we both went on searching for the Hot Press article.
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