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Old 02-18-2005, 05:01 PM   #1
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Bono's rejection of sectarianism, war

There have been a few threads recently to do with Bono's alleged views on the War on Terrorism, citing an interview with Hot Press from January 2002. I have seen the view expressed that Bono expressed support for GWB's War on Terrorism in that interview. I think that this is broadly correct on the basis of that particular interview. However, it is not a fair and complete representation of Bono's views on war expressed over the years.

Consider that:-

(1) Bono is on record as saying that the band filmed the video for "Mysterious Ways" in a Middle Eastern country because he felt the Western world was turning against the Middle East in the aftermath of the first Gulf War.

(2) The concept of ZooTV was partly (largely?) based on satirising the media representation of the first Gulf War - i.e. the idea of War as entertainment. I don't think that there were two many rock bands at that particular point in time with the courage to satirise the Gulf War!

(3) Close to the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in Ireland, Bono invited David Trimble and John Hume up on stage and shook hands with each of them during the Popmart concert in Belfast.

(pointedly NOT inviting the leaders of the two more extremist parties Sinn Fein and the DUP)

(4) Of the four members of U2, two are from Protestant backgrounds, one from a Catholic background and one from mixed background. Currently, three are non-denominational Christians and one is an agnostic.

But hey, what do I know. I've only been a U2 fan for 15 years.
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Old 02-18-2005, 06:31 PM   #2
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Guess you've all gone a bit quiet. All I'm saying is, don't pervert U2's message for false causes. If you're gonna take the "message" on board, don't be selective. Buy into it, or don't That's all.

As I've said, I've followed U2 for 15 years now, I know whereof I speak.
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Old 02-18-2005, 06:34 PM   #3
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So, to be fans, we need to believe what Bono believes?
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Old 02-18-2005, 06:41 PM   #4
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No.

However, there were various threads recently quoting Bono's alleged views on the War on Terrorism, and using the Hotpress interview primarily. I think, if someone is quoting Bono or anyone else, they should quote a representative selection of quotes instead of just one interview.

To pose a question, what values do you think U2 stand for primarily?
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Old 02-18-2005, 07:00 PM   #5
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Right, fair enough, I think if U2 stand for anything they stand for:-

(1) Freedom

(2) Non-sectarianism (see nr 1)

(3) Living the Christian life, in the proper sense

(4) Social Justice

(5) Care for the environment

(6) Equality
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Old 02-18-2005, 07:12 PM   #6
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I think that being a "fan" of U2 or anyone else means that you respect them enough not to twist their words and their actions in a direction that promotes your point of view, but which is untrue.

Twisting things to fit your agenda shows NO RESPECT for the person/group that you say that you admire!

Speak the facts about Bono and/or U2 - quote their words, retell the events in their lives. But DON'T TRY TO ADVANCE YOUR PERSONAL AGENDAS STATING MISTRUTHS OR HALF TRUTHS ABOUT U2!

That is just plain disrespectful of them and shows you to be someone who will do anything to advance your agenda - even to be untruthful with others.

Not cool.
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Old 02-18-2005, 07:21 PM   #7
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So, Jamila in your opinion what do U2 stand for primarily?
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Old 02-18-2005, 07:28 PM   #8
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I think all the guys of U2 essentially want is for everyone on this earth to respect each other, even if they disagree about something. And to love and take care of our fellow man.

Angela
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Old 02-18-2005, 07:29 PM   #9
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Let me state the facts about U2:

U2 historically HAS TAKEN political stands BY THEIR ACTIONS.

What are some of those actions?

Their pro-choice and pro-contraception stance going back as far as 1978-1979

Their anti-nuclear (bomb) stance going back as far as the "War" album (1983)

Their anti-apartheid stance in the 1980's (VERY controversial and anti-establishment then)

Their support for Amnesty International (not a generally right-wing supported organization)

Their outspoken stance against the U/S. government's efforts to foment war and destruction in Central America in the 1980's

Their opposition of Pres. George Bush in the early 1990's

Their activities with Greenpeace (a much maligned organization by the right-wing) to shut Sellafield in the early 1990's.

Their outspoken support for anti-racist activities in Europe in the early 1990's.

Their support of the Muslims' right to live in safety and respect in Bosnia in the mid-1990's

U2's ANGRY rebuke of the former juntas of Argentina and Chile of the 1970s-1980s during the Popmart tour - juntas which were put into power with the money and support of the USA. (Remember Bono's vicious retort to former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet "Tell these women - where are their children?")

Bono's leadership (and U2's tacit support) of the "Drop the Debt" Jubilee 2000 movement of 1998-2000. This was definitely a political stance that was outside of the conservative viewpoint then.

Bono's chiding of the Bush administration during the Elevation tour of their lack of understanding of the dimensions of the AIDS pandemic in Africa - especially his criticisms onstage of Andrew Natsios (sp?) of the Bush Administration who said that Africans wouldn't be good at taking AIDS meds because they didn't have watches?

Bono's on again, off again relationship with the current Bush administration's policies toward Africa. Here are Bono's LATEST FEELINGS ABOUT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION:



02.07.05

Bono's Reaction to Pres. Bush 2006 Budget Request


REACTION FROM BONO, U2 LEAD SINGER AND FOUNDER OF DATA:

"Good intention at the highest levels of the Bush Administration was not enough to deliver on the Millennium Challenge promise to the world’s poorest people in this year’s budget request. To make 2005 the year of a global breakthrough in the fight against poverty, we need the tens of millions of Americans who care -- who go to every church and rock concert -- to raise the volume before President Bush leaves for the G8's Africa summit in July."

REACTION BY JAMIE DRUMMOND, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF DATA:

“Not only has President Bush broken his word on funding for the Millennium Challenge, he has not put in the effort required to turn this excellent idea into a lifesaving reality for the world’s poorest people in the three years since it was announced. The pressure is now on for the President to demonstrate a serious commitment to helping the world’s poorest at the international Africa summit in July.”

Click here to download DATA's analysis of President Bush's 2006 budget request (PDF Format)


All these FACTS do show a definite political stance by U2. And, except for Bono's tacit support for the INITIAL stage of the "war on terrorism" (the initial invasion of Afghanistan) - the political stance is definitely from left field.

And I happen to agree with them. (Remember we all know how much the Edge despises George W. Bush).


I don't need to say anymore - do I, financeguy?

U2 stands for themselves - nothing less, nothing more.

None of us have the right to define them - they are more than capable of defining themselves.
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Old 02-18-2005, 07:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila

I don't need to say anymore - do I, financeguy?
No you do not need to say more.

Couldn't 'ave done it better meself.

Kudos to you.

Quote from Bono, circa '93 -

"To all you Neo-Nazis, I hope they give you AUSCHWITZ"
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Old 02-18-2005, 08:09 PM   #11
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financeguy -
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Old 02-19-2005, 01:26 PM   #12
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Re: Bono's rejection of sectarianism, war

Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
There have been a few threads recently to do with Bono's alleged views on the War on Terrorism, citing an interview with Hot Press from January 2002. I have seen the view expressed that Bono expressed support for GWB's War on Terrorism in that interview. I think that this is broadly correct on the basis of that particular interview. However, it is not a fair and complete representation of Bono's views on war expressed over the years.

Consider that:-

(1) Bono is on record as saying that the band filmed the video for "Mysterious Ways" in a Middle Eastern country because he felt the Western world was turning against the Middle East in the aftermath of the first Gulf War.

(2) The concept of ZooTV was partly (largely?) based on satirising the media representation of the first Gulf War - i.e. the idea of War as entertainment. I don't think that there were two many rock bands at that particular point in time with the courage to satirise the Gulf War!

(3) Close to the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in Ireland, Bono invited David Trimble and John Hume up on stage and shook hands with each of them during the Popmart concert in Belfast.

(pointedly NOT inviting the leaders of the two more extremist parties Sinn Fein and the DUP)

(4) Of the four members of U2, two are from Protestant backgrounds, one from a Catholic background and one from mixed background. Currently, three are non-denominational Christians and one is an agnostic.

But hey, what do I know. I've only been a U2 fan for 15 years.

What Bono said in the HOT PRESS interview is not the only source where BONO expresses his support for US foreign Policy and military intervention.

Both BONO and EDGE expressed their support for the United States to use military force to intervene in the conflict in Bosnia in the mid-1990s, despite strong opposition by many people to intervening in the conflict there. This can be found in Bill Flanagans book, "Until The End Of The World".

BONO expressed his support and thanks to US troops in Bosnia when the POPMART tour came there in 1997. He has also expressed his support and thanks to US troops here in the USA during the Elevation tour, in particular on Jay Leno's talk show.


These are FACTS, and no amount of cherry picking from the past is going to change that.



"(1) Bono is on record as saying that the band filmed the video for "Mysterious Ways" in a Middle Eastern country because he felt the Western world was turning against the Middle East in the aftermath of the first Gulf War."

Thats a very general statement that really refers more to people's idea's and what they are thinking rather than governments. There is nothing specific there that is anti-Gulf War or anti-US foreign policy. I'm sure BONO supported the removal of Saddam's military from Kuwait.



"(2) The concept of ZooTV was partly (largely?) based on satirising the media representation of the first Gulf War - i.e. the idea of War as entertainment. I don't think that there were two many rock bands at that particular point in time with the courage to satirise the Gulf War!"

This is a statement about the media culture, not a political statement against coalition military intervention to remove SADDAM's military from and independent country he had just invaded and brutally took over.




"3) Close to the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in Ireland, Bono invited David Trimble and John Hume up on stage and shook hands with each of them during the Popmart concert in Belfast."

"(pointedly NOT inviting the leaders of the two more extremist parties Sinn Fein and the DUP)"

This does not make BONO a pacifist.


"(4) Of the four members of U2, two are from Protestant backgrounds, one from a Catholic background and one from mixed background. Currently, three are non-denominational Christians and one is an agnostic."

True, but it doesn't have much to do with the topic of international war and terrorism outside of Ireland.
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Old 02-19-2005, 01:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
Guess you've all gone a bit quiet. All I'm saying is, don't pervert U2's message for false causes. If you're gonna take the "message" on board, don't be selective. Buy into it, or don't That's all.

As I've said, I've followed U2 for 15 years now, I know whereof I speak.
My whole point has been that liberals constantly pervert BONO's and U2's message and pretend they automatically support every single liberal cause there is and are all out Pacifist completely against war.

This image is totally false. BONO and the band do support military intervention in a number of cases.

More importantly, the band does NOT have one specific defined political message that you can apply to any cause you feel like. Most of the bands political views on specific topics are in fact unknown!

The band have independent political views and people should not presume that the band has some specific message and pretend that they support x and oppose y, unless they have been specifically qouted as saying such things. The band belongs to no one politically just as they don't belong to a specific church.


As far as the fan thing, we have people in here that have been fans for nearly 25 years and met the band.
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Old 02-19-2005, 01:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
Let me state the facts about U2:

U2 historically HAS TAKEN political stands BY THEIR ACTIONS.

What are some of those actions?

Their pro-choice and pro-contraception stance going back as far as 1978-1979

Their anti-nuclear (bomb) stance going back as far as the "War" album (1983)

Their anti-apartheid stance in the 1980's (VERY controversial and anti-establishment then)

Their support for Amnesty International (not a generally right-wing supported organization)

Their outspoken stance against the U/S. government's efforts to foment war and destruction in Central America in the 1980's

Their opposition of Pres. George Bush in the early 1990's

Their activities with Greenpeace (a much maligned organization by the right-wing) to shut Sellafield in the early 1990's.

Their outspoken support for anti-racist activities in Europe in the early 1990's.

Their support of the Muslims' right to live in safety and respect in Bosnia in the mid-1990's

U2's ANGRY rebuke of the former juntas of Argentina and Chile of the 1970s-1980s during the Popmart tour - juntas which were put into power with the money and support of the USA. (Remember Bono's vicious retort to former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet "Tell these women - where are their children?")

Bono's leadership (and U2's tacit support) of the "Drop the Debt" Jubilee 2000 movement of 1998-2000. This was definitely a political stance that was outside of the conservative viewpoint then.

Bono's chiding of the Bush administration during the Elevation tour of their lack of understanding of the dimensions of the AIDS pandemic in Africa - especially his criticisms onstage of Andrew Natsios (sp?) of the Bush Administration who said that Africans wouldn't be good at taking AIDS meds because they didn't have watches?

Bono's on again, off again relationship with the current Bush administration's policies toward Africa. Here are Bono's LATEST FEELINGS ABOUT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION:



02.07.05

Bono's Reaction to Pres. Bush 2006 Budget Request


REACTION FROM BONO, U2 LEAD SINGER AND FOUNDER OF DATA:

"Good intention at the highest levels of the Bush Administration was not enough to deliver on the Millennium Challenge promise to the world’s poorest people in this year’s budget request. To make 2005 the year of a global breakthrough in the fight against poverty, we need the tens of millions of Americans who care -- who go to every church and rock concert -- to raise the volume before President Bush leaves for the G8's Africa summit in July."

REACTION BY JAMIE DRUMMOND, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF DATA:

“Not only has President Bush broken his word on funding for the Millennium Challenge, he has not put in the effort required to turn this excellent idea into a lifesaving reality for the world’s poorest people in the three years since it was announced. The pressure is now on for the President to demonstrate a serious commitment to helping the world’s poorest at the international Africa summit in July.”

Click here to download DATA's analysis of President Bush's 2006 budget request (PDF Format)


All these FACTS do show a definite political stance by U2. And, except for Bono's tacit support for the INITIAL stage of the "war on terrorism" (the initial invasion of Afghanistan) - the political stance is definitely from left field.

And I happen to agree with them. (Remember we all know how much the Edge despises George W. Bush).


I don't need to say anymore - do I, financeguy?

U2 stands for themselves - nothing less, nothing more.

None of us have the right to define them - they are more than capable of defining themselves.

None of us have a right to define them yet thats precisely what you attempt to do in the post above, attempting to align them politically with your stances on various things and leaving out the things they support that many liberals do know about or would be surprised about, not to mention, the vast majority of their political views that remain unknown.

U2 are NOT Democrats, Republicans, Catholics or Protestants. They are not a political vehicle designed to oppose or support BUSH. They are NOT lap dogs that would go along with any and all views liberals support. I'm sure like any group of people, the band have their own political disagreements among themselves as well. There is a myth out there that the band are this massive liberal dragon supporting every cause that could be attached to a liberal, this is false. The band have never been socialist pacifist. U2 may be a band of four, but they are also a corporation of five and are huge believers in Capitalism and have benifited enormously from Capitalism. They are not pacifist and do support military intervention. They do not think that Bush is the Devil(like many people in here) and believe he is someone they can do work with.
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Old 02-19-2005, 01:59 PM   #15
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Does it really matter where Bono stands?
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