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Old 02-19-2005, 02:03 PM   #16
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Originally posted by STING2
I'm sure like any group of people, the band have their own political disagreements among themselves as well.
I don't want to get too deep, but I'm sure this is true. Take Pearl Jam for example, one of their members has said that when they talk politics with each other, they get five different responses. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a number of political disagreements within U2.
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Old 02-19-2005, 04:22 PM   #17
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Originally posted by STING2
U2 are NOT Democrats, Republicans, Catholics or Protestants. They are not a political vehicle designed to oppose or support BUSH. They are NOT lap dogs that would go along with any and all views liberals support. I'm sure like any group of people, the band have their own political disagreements among themselves as well. There is a myth out there that the band are this massive liberal dragon supporting every cause that could be attached to a liberal, this is false. The band have never been socialist pacifist. U2 may be a band of four, but they are also a corporation of five and are huge believers in Capitalism and have benifited enormously from Capitalism. They are not pacifist and do support military intervention. They do not think that Bush is the Devil(like many people in here) and believe he is someone they can do work with.
The great majority of liberals are NOT pacifist - true pacifists are very, very rare. And there's plenty of liberals who believe in capitalism. I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing your point.
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Old 02-19-2005, 04:23 PM   #18
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Never mind - I was trying to edit my first post and goofed up, and now I can't seem to delete this post.
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Old 02-19-2005, 07:33 PM   #19
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Originally posted by STING2



None of us have a right to define them yet thats precisely what you attempt to do in the post above, attempting to align them politically with your stances on various things and leaving out the things they support that many liberals do know about or would be surprised about, not to mention, the vast majority of their political views that remain unknown.

U2 are NOT Democrats, Republicans, Catholics or Protestants. They are not a political vehicle designed to oppose or support BUSH. They are NOT lap dogs that would go along with any and all views liberals support. I'm sure like any group of people, the band have their own political disagreements among themselves as well. There is a myth out there that the band are this massive liberal dragon supporting every cause that could be attached to a liberal, this is false. The band have never been socialist pacifist. U2 may be a band of four, but they are also a corporation of five and are huge believers in Capitalism and have benifited enormously from Capitalism. They are not pacifist and do support military intervention. They do not think that Bush is the Devil(like many people in here) and believe he is someone they can do work with.

Got a little riled there kid did ya? Guess you don't like the truth.

Don't lecture me on what U2 believe or not.
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Old 02-19-2005, 07:38 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I don't want to get too deep, but I'm sure this is true. Take Pearl Jam for example, one of their members has said that when they talk politics with each other, they get five different responses. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a number of political disagreements within U2.
This is a fair comment, and probably there are disagreements within U2 on a lot of issues.

For example, the band were considering a suggestion to play a concert in Israel during the '97 Pop mart tour, Larry wouldn't accept it.

I think we can all see what was happened since with regard to the war crimes and massacre on the Palestinian people - looks like Larry called it 100% right.
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Old 02-19-2005, 07:42 PM   #21
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Originally posted by financeguy

Don't lecture me on what U2 believe or not.
Actually, FYM is not a place for a one-way conversation
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Old 02-19-2005, 07:45 PM   #22
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Originally posted by STING2



None of us have a right to define them yet thats precisely what you attempt to do in the post above, attempting to align them politically with your stances on various things and leaving out the things they support that many liberals do know about or would be surprised about, not to mention, the vast majority of their political views that remain unknown.

U2 are NOT Democrats, Republicans, Catholics or Protestants. They are not a political vehicle designed to oppose or support BUSH. They are NOT lap dogs that would go along with any and all views liberals support. I'm sure like any group of people, the band have their own political disagreements among themselves as well. There is a myth out there that the band are this massive liberal dragon supporting every cause that could be attached to a liberal, this is false. The band have never been socialist pacifist. U2 may be a band of four, but they are also a corporation of five and are huge believers in Capitalism and have benifited enormously from Capitalism. They are not pacifist and do support military intervention. They do not think that Bush is the Devil(like many people in here) and believe he is someone they can do work with.
I'm so pissed off right now I don't know how to respond to this.

That's a totally and utterly ridiculous mispresentation of what both Jamila and myself stated, you're just using insults about "socialists" and "pacificists", it's ridiculous.

You don't appear to have any idea of the kind of values and ideals U2 stand for, at this stage Im too pissed off to post any more.
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Old 02-19-2005, 07:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
There is a myth out there that the band are this massive liberal dragon supporting every cause that could be attached to a liberal, this is false. The band have never been socialist pacifist. U2 may be a band of four, but they are also a corporation of five and are huge believers in Capitalism and have benifited enormously from Capitalism. They are not pacifist and do support military intervention. They do not think that Bush is the Devil(like many people in here) and believe he is someone they can do work with.
This is a false argument, you're trying to label me and Jamila as "socialist" and "pacifist".

That is an absolutely disgraceful slur, and I will not tolerate that.

No-one in this thread ever said U2 weren't capitalists, or didn't benefit from capitalism.

Moderators, please explain policy on labelling people as "socialist" and "pacifist".

Sting2, I suggest you withdraw, otherwise I'll see you in court.
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Old 02-19-2005, 08:04 PM   #24
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Originally posted by financeguy


This is a false argument, you're trying to label me and Jamila as "socialist" and "pacifist".

That is an absolutely disgraceful slur, and I will not tolerate that.

No-one in this thread ever said U2 weren't capitalists, or didn't benefit from capitalism.

Moderators, please explain policy on labelling people as "socialist" and "pacifist".

Sting2, I suggest you withdraw, otherwise I'll see you in court.
Sting2, I've reported your post to the mods, and I'll await their response at this stage, if that avenue doesn't work then I'll seek whatever legal options are available to me, and we can take it from there, but I would suggest at this stage not to misrepresent me again.
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Old 02-19-2005, 08:06 PM   #25
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STING2,

You say that people should not generalize or speculate that U2 agrees with their own point of view, yet that is exactly what YOU did in these statements:

"Thats a very general statement that really refers more to people's idea's and what they are thinking rather than governments. There is nothing specific there that is anti-Gulf War or anti-US foreign policy. I'm sure BONO supported the removal of Saddam's military from Kuwait."


"They do not think that Bush is the Devil(like many people in here) and believe he is someone they can do work with."


Edge, especially, has been VERY vocal in voicing his opposition to George W. Bush and Bono's latest statements about Bush does not show a lot of respect for him politically, so I really don't know where you came up with that statement!

Do you have ANY direct quotes (cite the source, please) where U2 has voiced support of Bush? Even Bono at this point isn't sure if he can trust Bush on Global AIDS funding. (check Bono's statement of Feb. 7, 2005 that I have posted several times)

And my favorite:

"As far as the fan thing, we have people in here that have been fans for nearly 25 years and met the band."

You are completely correct on this one! I have been an avid U2 follower for OVER 24 YEARS and have attended several speaking occasions (3) where Bono has spoken on the AIDS pandemic and his involvement in the struggle for Africa's Future.

I have had the GREAT FORTUNE to have met the man briefly at these events plus I am an active volunteer in an organization that Bono is deeply involved with.

Thus, when I speak on Bono and where he stands on issues, it comes from the things that I have DIRECTLY HEARD HIM SAY or have found out from others that he has said.

Just to clarify that thing about meeting band members and being a fan of nearly 25 years.

Many of us are.

I NEED SOMETHING OTHER....
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Old 02-19-2005, 08:13 PM   #26
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Ouch, far be it for me to justify or explain someone else's posts on here, but I do think Sting was talking more about a general concensus among fans who are not learned on U2's stances on many things and imply too often (or not - though not the point) that U2 are snugly fit into one mold, which is far left liberal, and wasn't necessarily meaning yourself or Jamila. Likewise though, I cant downplay your offence and attempt to imply we should write that off even though I dont understand it.
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Old 02-19-2005, 08:20 PM   #27
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Old 02-19-2005, 08:23 PM   #28
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I understand what you're saying, but I will not tolerate to any extent being labelled as a socialist or a pacifist, not least because believe it or not I am pretty conservative on many issues. Back in the '80s I didn't even rate U2 much because I considered them far too liberal on certain issues.

That is one of the reasons why I take exception to the implication in Sting2's posts trying to label me as a "socialist" or "pacifist".

Sting2, I'll happily give you the names and addresses of the firms I generally use, I have some good firms in Dublin city that would be quite prepared to act for me on issues of misrep., etc.

Angelaharlem, I thank you for your input but I am not open to that kind of diplomacy at this point in time.
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Old 02-19-2005, 11:49 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
I understand what you're saying, but I will not tolerate to any extent being labelled as a socialist or a pacifist, not least because believe it or not I am pretty conservative on many issues. Back in the '80s I didn't even rate U2 much because I considered them far too liberal on certain issues.

That is one of the reasons why I take exception to the implication in Sting2's posts trying to label me as a "socialist" or "pacifist".

Sting2, I'll happily give you the names and addresses of the firms I generally use, I have some good firms in Dublin city that would be quite prepared to act for me on issues of misrep., etc.

Angelaharlem, I thank you for your input but I am not open to that kind of diplomacy at this point in time.
I've not labled anyone as anything in this entire thread with the possible exception of U2 by saying that they did not fit into every liberals shoes. The posts where I said the band were not socialist pacifist was in response to a posts by Jamila. The actual quote is:

"The band have never been socialist pacifist"

Saying the band are not x or y cannot be construed as an attempt to lable someone else as x and y.

I have no idea what your political views are as I don't recall you posting in here before. I do disagree with your points about U2 and all I'm trying to do is point out that U2 have sometimes taken positions that run contrary to what many liberals think, believe or support. Oh, and that does not imply that I think your a liberal.
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Old 02-20-2005, 12:25 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
STING2,

You say that people should not generalize or speculate that U2 agrees with their own point of view, yet that is exactly what YOU did in these statements:

"Thats a very general statement that really refers more to people's idea's and what they are thinking rather than governments. There is nothing specific there that is anti-Gulf War or anti-US foreign policy. I'm sure BONO supported the removal of Saddam's military from Kuwait."


"They do not think that Bush is the Devil(like many people in here) and believe he is someone they can do work with."


Edge, especially, has been VERY vocal in voicing his opposition to George W. Bush and Bono's latest statements about Bush does not show a lot of respect for him politically, so I really don't know where you came up with that statement!

Do you have ANY direct quotes (cite the source, please) where U2 has voiced support of Bush? Even Bono at this point isn't sure if he can trust Bush on Global AIDS funding. (check Bono's statement of Feb. 7, 2005 that I have posted several times)

And my favorite:

"As far as the fan thing, we have people in here that have been fans for nearly 25 years and met the band."

You are completely correct on this one! I have been an avid U2 follower for OVER 24 YEARS and have attended several speaking occasions (3) where Bono has spoken on the AIDS pandemic and his involvement in the struggle for Africa's Future.

I have had the GREAT FORTUNE to have met the man briefly at these events plus I am an active volunteer in an organization that Bono is deeply involved with.

Thus, when I speak on Bono and where he stands on issues, it comes from the things that I have DIRECTLY HEARD HIM SAY or have found out from others that he has said.

Just to clarify that thing about meeting band members and being a fan of nearly 25 years.

Many of us are.

I NEED SOMETHING OTHER....
Ok, I've met all the band members myself, but I don't take that point or the length of time that I've been a fan as a way of saying that I know more than someone that has not met the band or just recently became a fan, on this particular issue.

All I have done in this thread is point out the fact that the band does not agree or support every single political view point of those on the "left". I've not claimed that the band work for Bush, have become conservatives or Republicans or no longer have liberal views on many issues. All I have done is state that Bono has supported the Bush administration on some things and has had views in the past that not all liberals would agree with or support. I've cited specific cases where BONO has voiced these things. I've not tried to extrapolate that into something greater than what it is, nor should anyone try to marginalize it either in my view.
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