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Old 04-26-2005, 02:01 PM   #121
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Originally posted by shart1780
I'm not making up my own laws, I'm basing what I'm saying off of what the Bible says.
More likely, you're basing off what others (like ministers) have told you the Bible said. Sorry to say, a lot of them are wrong.

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Old 04-26-2005, 02:04 PM   #122
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Originally posted by shart1780
A christian can judge righteously with God's word, nothing else. The Bible is God's word, he gave it to us so we could know some things about him. The Bible has certain commandments that can't be ignored. I don't believe you can ignore God's word and go to Heaven, because JESUS SAID SO.

I'm not making up my own laws, I'm basing what I'm saying off of what the Bible says.

And according to the Bible some people will be rewarded more than others in Heaven. Don't ask me for all the details because I don't know everything, but apparently there is different levels of reward.

You know what, I'm tired of people calling me ignorant. I'm the only one quoting the Bible here, why is that ignoarnt. Since when did God's word become a mute point in christianity. It's just ridiculous.
Who called you ignorant?

I don't recall any verse saying that the whole Bible is God's word. For it never references itself. It was put together years after the authors died. The letters were chosen and put together. I never heard Jesus say you will get a Bible and it will be God's word. I also don't recall a hierarchy in heaven. And I don't recall Jesus telling any of us to judge. You stated these things so the burden of proof is on you. Maybe you're right, but in all my studies I can't recall any of these things.
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Old 04-26-2005, 02:05 PM   #123
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Originally posted by Anthony
LeafsNation;

Its not polite to call someone's religious views 'nonsensical', or any other name for that matter. You seem to have a valid point, but please try to be respectful. If everyone can remember that as the thread continues, that would be great.


Ant.

Anthony and 80u2isBest,

I apologize if my words came off too strong...but as offended as I was, I meant to question the ideas rather than attack the individual. Nevertheless I could have done it in a more civil way, and for that I do apologize.

That being said, I strongly believe that 80sU2isBest words were deliberately provocative...otherwise he wouldn't have prefaced his assertion with , "as unpopular as the idea is, I'm not going to sugar coat what the Bible says....". He was keenly aware that his words would offend some, so why would he be so taken aback by a response like mine? The way I see it, if you're going to stoke the fire, be ready to take some heat.

With respect to 80sU2isBest comment that I "should read" the bible, I'm interested in knowing why he would assume that as a Catholic I haven't. Is this genuinely friendly advice, or I wonder if I should be reading something between the lines?

Cheers,

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Old 04-26-2005, 02:08 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780
A christian can judge righteously with God's word, nothing else. The Bible is God's word, he gave it to us so we could know some things about him. The Bible has certain commandments that can't be ignored. I don't believe you can ignore God's word and go to Heaven, because JESUS SAID SO.

I'm not making up my own laws, I'm basing what I'm saying off of what the Bible says.

And according to the Bible some people will be rewarded more than others in Heaven. Don't ask me for all the details because I don't know everything, but apparently there is different levels of reward.

You know what, I'm tired of people calling me ignorant. I'm the only one quoting the Bible here, why is that ignoarnt. Since when did God's word become a mute point in christianity. It's just ridiculous.
If I may disagree with you, respectfully as a Christian, I do not think it is ignorant to quote the Bible. I do not believe it is a moot point to quote the Bible. I also do not believe you can have it both ways, that some things are to be taken as literal truths and some are not. It is either all literal or it is not all literal.

I happen to be on the side that it is not literal, nor was it intended to be literal. That does not mean I have any less respect for your view of Christianity. I think when it comes right down to it, as NBC always seems to point out, we as Christians have much more in common with each other than not.
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Old 04-26-2005, 02:35 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally posted by LeafsNation

Anthony and 80u2isBest,

I apologize if my words came off too strong...but as offended as I was, I meant to question the ideas rather than attack the individual. Nevertheless I could have done it in a more civil way, and for that I do apologize.
What you should apologize for is insulting me for supposedly having a belief that I had previously stated twice in this thread that I do not have.

Quote:
Originally posted by LeafsNation

That being said, I strongly believe that 80sU2isBest words were deliberately provocative...otherwise he wouldn't have prefaced his assertion with , "as unpopular as the idea is, I'm not going to sugar coat what the Bible says....". He was keenly aware that his words would offend some, so why would he be so taken aback by a response like mine? The way I see it, if you're going to stoke the fire, be ready to take some heat.
I wasn't attempting to be provocative. The reason I said "as unpopular as the idea is" is because the idea is indeed unpopular that some people will go to hell. I have been ridiculed on this forum and other places for that belief.

But the reason I was "taken aback" was because you insulted me for having a belief that I had previously stated in this very same thread that I do not have. It frustrates me that you would attack me for believing that even people who have never heard of Christ would go to hell, when I had made it clear I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT.

Quote:
Originally posted by LeafsNation

With respect to 80sU2isBest comment that I "should read" the bible, I'm interested in knowing why he would assume that as a Catholic I haven't. Is this genuinely friendly advice, or I wonder if I should be reading something between the lines?
Cheers,
LN
You're making assumptions yourself. You assume that it's because you are Catholic that I implied you haven't read the Bible. That's not it at all. The reason I thought you haven't read the bible is because you didn't seem to realize that Christ himself as well as the other New Testament writers said that a belief in Christ is necessary for entrance into Heaven. If you deny that the Bible says that, then it makes me think you haven't read the Bible, because the Bible makes it very clear several times that a belief in Christ is necessary to enter Heaven.

By that point, I was very frustrated with you for not taking the time to study up on my views before insulting me, so I probably worded that in a biting way I shouldn't have, and if that's the case, I apologize.

I will rephrase:

Have you read the Bible? If so, what do you do with all the verses that state that a belief in Christ is necessary for entrance into Heaven?
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Old 04-26-2005, 02:41 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America


Who called you ignorant?

I don't recall any verse saying that the whole Bible is God's word. For it never references itself.
2 Tim 3:16

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
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Old 04-26-2005, 02:55 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


2 Tim 3:16

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

so is the bible like those TV movies that are "inspired by actual events"?
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Old 04-26-2005, 02:59 PM   #128
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so is the bible like those TV movies that are "inspired by actual events"?
Nope. The Greek for "inspired by" actually means "given by".

The phrase "inspired by God" means "God-breathed".

And I didn't write "I believe" that time, because that is not just my belief. That is what the Lexicon says.
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Old 04-26-2005, 03:03 PM   #129
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Nope. The Greek for "inspired by" actually means "given by".

The phrase "inspired by God" means "God-breathed".

And I didn't write "I believe" that time, because that is not just my belief. That is what the Lexicon says.

i still don't get it. "inspired by" and "God-breathed" sound awfully metaphoric to me, it's very vivid, evocative language.

and the English Major/Lit Theory geek in me knows that texts shift in meaning over time and context, and that all writing done by humans, inspired or otherwise, contains the biases of the authors, who are in turn biased and shaped by their time periods and historical contexts. there are no objective, "correct" readings, simply valid readings (i.e, "good" readings supported by quality scolarship) that are forever contested.
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Old 04-26-2005, 03:17 PM   #130
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Sin is removal from God. We as humans are born sinners. We all have a "God-shaped hole." Acts committed out of sin are ones that incorrectly attempt to fill that God-shaped hole. These can be money, sex, drugs, power, etc. I believe sex is most easily confused as the remedy for the hole only God can fill. Hence, many see certain forms of sex as the worst sin.

I believe that being saved will include having a personal relation with Jesus. I am not a Christian, nor do I think surrender to the man Jesus is the road to heaven. We are all children of God. Jesus knew he was the son of God--this was his identity. I think he would be mortified if he knew we popularly confused the man/image of Jesus with the Christ-essence.
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Old 04-26-2005, 03:17 PM   #131
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At any rate, the Lexicon makes it clear that it doesn't simply mean "inspired by" in the sense that "TV movies are inspired by actual events". The Greek dictionary makes it very clear that it goes deeper than that, that the Bible was given by God. Whether you believe that the Lexicon is correct or not is your own affair. I'm just telling you what the Lexicon says.
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Old 04-26-2005, 04:11 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


2 Tim 3:16

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
Mine just says "is inspired by". This is a letter written by Paul to Tim. In the letter it speaks about the last days of man and how Tim can use the scripture he's known since a child to teach and correct.

This has nothing to do with any future writing, hence most of the Bible we know today.
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Old 04-26-2005, 05:26 PM   #133
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So which parts of the Bible do you think need to be followed. And how did come to the conclusion that the verses you choose to follow are the ones that need to be followed.
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Old 04-26-2005, 05:31 PM   #134
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So which parts of the Bible do you think need to be followed. And how did come to the conclusion that the verses you choose to follow are the ones that need to be followed.
You've been asked like 3 different questions and you answer with this?

There are the 10 commandments and there are those things Christ said. None of these things contradict each other, they are backed up by several books and several different accounts. They weren't spoken by man without anything else to back them up.

So now back to your question.
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Old 04-26-2005, 06:10 PM   #135
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Consider these scriptures

2nd Timothy 3: 16-17
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work

2nd Peter 1: 20-21)
"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
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