Bono: What's always bothered me about the fundamentalists is
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Do Miss America
War Child
shart1780 said:
Who called you ignorant?
I don't recall any verse saying that the whole Bible is God's word. For it never references itself. It was put together years after the authors died. The letters were chosen and put together. I never heard Jesus say you will get a Bible and it will be God's word. I also don't recall a hierarchy in heaven. And I don't recall Jesus telling any of us to judge. You stated these things so the burden of proof is on you. Maybe you're right, but in all my studies I can't recall any of these things.
LeafsNation
The Fly
Anthony said:
Anthony and 80u2isBest,
I apologize if my words came off too strong...but as offended as I was, I meant to question the ideas rather than attack the individual. Nevertheless I could have done it in a more civil way, and for that I do apologize.
That being said, I strongly believe that 80sU2isBest words were deliberately provocative...otherwise he wouldn't have prefaced his assertion with , "as unpopular as the idea is, I'm not going to sugar coat what the Bible says....". He was keenly aware that his words would offend some, so why would he be so taken aback by a response like mine? The way I see it, if you're going to stoke the fire, be ready to take some heat.
With respect to 80sU2isBest comment that I "should read" the bible, I'm interested in knowing why he would assume that as a Catholic I haven't. Is this genuinely friendly advice, or I wonder if I should be reading something between the lines?
Cheers,
LN
shart1780 said:
If I may disagree with you, respectfully as a Christian, I do not think it is ignorant to quote the Bible. I do not believe it is a moot point to quote the Bible. I also do not believe you can have it both ways, that some things are to be taken as literal truths and some are not. It is either all literal or it is not all literal.
I happen to be on the side that it is not literal, nor was it intended to be literal. That does not mean I have any less respect for your view of Christianity. I think when it comes right down to it, as NBC always seems to point out, we as Christians have much more in common with each other than not.
80sU2isBest
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LeafsNation said:
What you should apologize for is insulting me for supposedly having a belief that I had previously stated twice in this thread that I do not have.
LeafsNation said:
I wasn't attempting to be provocative. The reason I said "as unpopular as the idea is" is because the idea is indeed unpopular that some people will go to hell. I have been ridiculed on this forum and other places for that belief.
But the reason I was "taken aback" was because you insulted me for having a belief that I had previously stated in this very same thread that I do not have. It frustrates me that you would attack me for believing that even people who have never heard of Christ would go to hell, when I had made it clear I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT.
LeafsNation said:
You're making assumptions yourself. You assume that it's because you are Catholic that I implied you haven't read the Bible. That's not it at all. The reason I thought you haven't read the bible is because you didn't seem to realize that Christ himself as well as the other New Testament writers said that a belief in Christ is necessary for entrance into Heaven. If you deny that the Bible says that, then it makes me think you haven't read the Bible, because the Bible makes it very clear several times that a belief in Christ is necessary to enter Heaven.
By that point, I was very frustrated with you for not taking the time to study up on my views before insulting me, so I probably worded that in a biting way I shouldn't have, and if that's the case, I apologize.
I will rephrase:
Have you read the Bible? If so, what do you do with all the verses that state that a belief in Christ is necessary for entrance into Heaven?
80sU2isBest
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Do Miss America said:
2 Tim 3:16
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
Irvine511
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80sU2isBest said:
so is the bible like those TV movies that are "inspired by actual events"?
80sU2isBest
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Irvine511 said:
Nope. The Greek for "inspired by" actually means "given by".
The phrase "inspired by God" means "God-breathed".
And I didn't write "I believe" that time, because that is not just my belief. That is what the Lexicon says.
Irvine511
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80sU2isBest said:
i still don't get it. "inspired by" and "God-breathed" sound awfully metaphoric to me, it's very vivid, evocative language.
and the English Major/Lit Theory geek in me knows that texts shift in meaning over time and context, and that all writing done by humans, inspired or otherwise, contains the biases of the authors, who are in turn biased and shaped by their time periods and historical contexts. there are no objective, "correct" readings, simply valid readings (i.e, "good" readings supported by quality scolarship) that are forever contested.
Dr. Lemonseed
The Fly
Sin is removal from God. We as humans are born sinners. We all have a "God-shaped hole." Acts committed out of sin are ones that incorrectly attempt to fill that God-shaped hole. These can be money, sex, drugs, power, etc. I believe sex is most easily confused as the remedy for the hole only God can fill. Hence, many see certain forms of sex as the worst sin.
I believe that being saved will include having a personal relation with Jesus. I am not a Christian, nor do I think surrender to the man Jesus is the road to heaven. We are all children of God. Jesus knew he was the son of God--this was his identity. I think he would be mortified if he knew we popularly confused the man/image of Jesus with the Christ-essence.
I believe that being saved will include having a personal relation with Jesus. I am not a Christian, nor do I think surrender to the man Jesus is the road to heaven. We are all children of God. Jesus knew he was the son of God--this was his identity. I think he would be mortified if he knew we popularly confused the man/image of Jesus with the Christ-essence.
80sU2isBest
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At any rate, the Lexicon makes it clear that it doesn't simply mean "inspired by" in the sense that "TV movies are inspired by actual events". The Greek dictionary makes it very clear that it goes deeper than that, that the Bible was given by God. Whether you believe that the Lexicon is correct or not is your own affair. I'm just telling you what the Lexicon says.
Do Miss America
War Child
80sU2isBest said:
Mine just says "is inspired by". This is a letter written by Paul to Tim. In the letter it speaks about the last days of man and how Tim can use the scripture he's known since a child to teach and correct.
This has nothing to do with any future writing, hence most of the Bible we know today.
shart1780
Rock n' Roll Doggie
So which parts of the Bible do you think need to be followed. And how did come to the conclusion that the verses you choose to follow are the ones that need to be followed.
Do Miss America
War Child
shart1780 said:
You've been asked like 3 different questions and you answer with this?
There are the 10 commandments and there are those things Christ said. None of these things contradict each other, they are backed up by several books and several different accounts. They weren't spoken by man without anything else to back them up.
So now back to your question.
shart1780
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Consider these scriptures
2nd Timothy 3: 16-17
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work
2nd Peter 1: 20-21)
"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
2nd Timothy 3: 16-17
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work
2nd Peter 1: 20-21)
"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
Do Miss America
War Child
I explained the context of this one above.shart1780 said:
shart1780 said:
Once again the context is of previous prophesies of Christ's coming and nothing more. It's past tense.
But still no word of this tiered heaven you speak of.
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starsgoblue
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After reading through this thread is can see exactly what Bono meant by what he said. Dare I say I'm inclined to agree with him? 
80sU2isBest
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Dare say whatever you want. All of us dare say things in this thread.
starsgoblue
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I think I did.
80sU2isBest
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So did we. I'm glad we all dared say what we dare say; otherwise there'd be nothing to say.
starsgoblue
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Let's not be facetious shall we?
80sU2isBest
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starsgoblue said:
Who's being facetious?
Do Miss America
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Dreadsox said:I cannot wait until we are all in the same room in heaven.....debating how the heck we all got in.....
Absolutely, I'll come over and and give you a big hug.
Moonlit_Angel
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Dreadsox said:I cannot wait until we are all in the same room in heaven.....debating how the heck we all got in.....
LOL. That'd be quite the event
.But it'd be good to see all of ya
.Angela
BostonAnne
Refugee
Dreadsox said:I cannot wait until we are all in the same room in heaven.....debating how the heck we all got in.....
A_Wanderer
ONE love, blood, life
Now wait I thought that the debating and philosophising went on in the first circle of hell.Dreadsox said:I cannot wait until we are all in the same room in heaven.....debating how the heck we all got in.....
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
A_Wanderer said:
i'll see you there, since i'm clearly going to hell since i'm not going to repent for the way God made me. and by some of the above definitions, we'll see Bono there as well.
also, i find it completely intellectually bogus for people to parse out minute details in a text in ENGLISH and then base a worldview on such minor distinctions.
80sU2isBest
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Irvine511 said:
Just remember that you said you are going to hell. You made that judgment upon yourself. No one else here did. I'd sure hate for you to be walking around all day saying "Those evil Christians told me I'm going to hell"
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nbcrusader
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Dreadsox said:I cannot wait until we are all in the same room in heaven.....debating how the heck we all got in.....
Will anyone not make it?
