beli
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I think its that new "Bono on Bono" or " Bono in Conversation" book. Whatever its called. Depends which country you live in as to the title of the book.
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Bono: What's always bothered me about the fundamentalists is
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MrsSpringsteen
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Borders has the book, I got it there yesterday
Anthony
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Please be aware, nickypiemcg, that there are minors visiting this website as well, and such langauge really isn't appropriate.
Ant.
yolland
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Dreadsox said:
Oh, we've got our fundamentalists too, believe me.
Anyway, the quote you started the thread with just says 'fundamentalists,' not 'fundamentalist Christians.' Granted, Bono probably doesn't encounter many such Jews, but I see no reason to assume he wouldn't have the same reaction to them. They also typically dwell on the 'most obvious' sins of others while ignoring their own obligations as Jews to tikkun olam, the duty of reducing suffering and injustice.
I guess one could split hairs over whether the word can technically apply to non-Christians. But it seems pretty clear to me that Bono's using it to describe a type of hypocrisy that's endemic to organized religion generally, not a specifically Christian phemonenon. Fundamentalist Christians just happen to be more numerous and influential...here in the West, anyway.
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deep
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Dreadsox said:
she is bigger than Judaism or Christianity
and can give God a run for his money
she did rewrite the "Ten Commandments"
BrownEyedBoy
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deep
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beli
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Anthony said:
sorry! I was just quoting someone else though!
namkcuR
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nbcrusader said:
We're not all sinners. I'm not a sinner. If one does not believe in the Catholic church, one would not recognize his or herself as a sinner. Some people don't believe in it.
nbcrusader
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Not believing you are a sinner and not being a sinner are two separate things.....
Macfistowannabe
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I don't necessarily believe in the Catholic church, but I consider myself a sinner.namkcuR said:
namkcuR
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Macfistowannabe said:
I don't believe in any church. I'm of no religion. I'm agnostic. But I really don't like the idea of 'sinning' in a religious sense. If I kill someone, perhaps I've sinned. But if I make love to someone I love, I refuse to acknowledge that as a sin, as if I've done something wrong. And the way I'm understanding it, in the religious sense, most everything we do that we get any enjoyment out of, is sin. Which I think is silly.
80sU2isBest
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In reference to the term "sinner", it also depends on what you're talking about.
If by "sinner" you simply mean someone who sins, then yes, we're all "sinners".
But if you are using the term "sinner" as an indicator of how God sees us and identifies us, then not all are "sinners".
When Christ died on the cross, he made it possible that anyone who believes in him could be not just "saved" from hell, but "born again". Paul makes it pretty clear that when a person is "born again", his old "sin nature" is "crucified" and replaced with a new nature, the nature of Christ. So am I saying that Christians are perfect in the flesh and never sin? No, not at all. But I am saying that God does not see Christians as "sinners" and identify Christians as such. If God identifies someone as "sinner", it is because that person has not been forgiven, saved and born again, and cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven, because his spirit is sinful, and God cannot abide in the presence of sin. When God looks at a Christian, he does not see sin (it has been washed away by the blood of Christ), and therefore he does not identify the Chistian as a "sinner". Paul uses the term "saint" to refer to Christians.
But this truth can often be a massive weapon of "perceived superiority" by Christians who think they are better than NonChristians. That's hardly the case at all. Christians are not sinners when it comes to God's identification of their spirits, but they certainly still sin, and the only reason Christians are "saved" and NonChristians are not is because of the grace and mercy of God the Father as expressed through the life, death and resurrection of the son Jesus Christ, not because of anything they have done to deserve it. The gift of eternal life and salvation is open to any person who chooses to accept that free gift.
If by "sinner" you simply mean someone who sins, then yes, we're all "sinners".
But if you are using the term "sinner" as an indicator of how God sees us and identifies us, then not all are "sinners".
When Christ died on the cross, he made it possible that anyone who believes in him could be not just "saved" from hell, but "born again". Paul makes it pretty clear that when a person is "born again", his old "sin nature" is "crucified" and replaced with a new nature, the nature of Christ. So am I saying that Christians are perfect in the flesh and never sin? No, not at all. But I am saying that God does not see Christians as "sinners" and identify Christians as such. If God identifies someone as "sinner", it is because that person has not been forgiven, saved and born again, and cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven, because his spirit is sinful, and God cannot abide in the presence of sin. When God looks at a Christian, he does not see sin (it has been washed away by the blood of Christ), and therefore he does not identify the Chistian as a "sinner". Paul uses the term "saint" to refer to Christians.
But this truth can often be a massive weapon of "perceived superiority" by Christians who think they are better than NonChristians. That's hardly the case at all. Christians are not sinners when it comes to God's identification of their spirits, but they certainly still sin, and the only reason Christians are "saved" and NonChristians are not is because of the grace and mercy of God the Father as expressed through the life, death and resurrection of the son Jesus Christ, not because of anything they have done to deserve it. The gift of eternal life and salvation is open to any person who chooses to accept that free gift.
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Irvine511
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so are Buddhists, Shintoists, Jews, Hindus, atheists and Muslims going to hell?
80sU2isBest
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As unpopular as the idea is, I'm not going to sugar coat what the Bible says. According to the Bible, anyone who ultimately rejects Christ will go to hell. You need to know this, as does everyone.Irvine511 said:
pax
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But God ultimately judges who will go to hell and who won't--not us. It is very much out of our hands.
80sU2isBest said:
I'm sure the Koran has a similar admonition for non-Muslims. That is, according to Islam, all Christians will rot in hell.
But that's the thing, I guess. Christianity puts authority in the Bible. Judaism (depending on the sect) puts authority in the Old Testament and/or the Talmud. Islam puts authority into the Koran. Zoroastrianism puts authority into the Avesta. Hinduism has its scriptures (I forget their names).
And for all of these religions, any scripture outside of their own has no moral authority. It's just a book.
Melon
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80sU2isBest said:
I'm not trying to be a butt (b/c I think this is an interesting point), but I think it's important then for you to define what a "Christian" is.....at least for me so I can better understand this interpretation.
pax
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melon said:
The Vedas.
80sU2isBest
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LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
A follower of Jesus Christ, not a follower of the "teachings of Christ" (love, etc.), but followers of Christ, which includes belief, trust and faith in Christ - who he is and what he has done for mankind.
Once again, I reject any notion that man-made religion hold the truth about going to heaven or hell. WE can have our human beliefs, but I think God has time and again shown that who he chooses might not always be who we think should be chosen.
Bono has a really good passage in the book about Jacob.....it was interesting.
I am done the book.
Bono has a really good passage in the book about Jacob.....it was interesting.
I am done the book.
80sU2isBest
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pax said:
No, it's not in our hands. But we do have something to base our beliefs of this issue upon. The Bible does indeed say who will go to hell, and who will go to heaven, and how you can be sure you will got heaven. If someone doesn't believe in the Bible, they of course won't believe this. But I do believe in the Bible, and I care about people's eternity, so I'm going to tell them what I believe is the key to eternal life.
80sU2isBest
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Thanks Dread, for the nice comments.
I broke a promise to myself by posting in Free Your Mind again.
I broke a promise to myself by posting in Free Your Mind again.
Irvine511
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80sU2isBest said:
so is it a cost/benefit thing? like, you shop around with the fear of Hell in mind, and then settle on a religion that has the clearest path away from Hell? is being a Christian, in this sense, like purchasing life insurance, or at least a kind of "get out of Hell, free" card? is fear of Hell more important than love of your fellow person? is behavior here on earth simply an investment, with the big return a pair of wings and a harp?
80sU2isBest
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Irvine511 said:
No, I didn't "shop around with the fear of hell in mind", I received what I believe was a calling of the Holy Spirit, and I responded in the affirmative.
The fear of hell is NOT more important than the love of my fellow person. If I do "good works" it is not as any kind of "investment". If I do any good work at all, it is "not I who do it, but Christ who lives in me that does it"(thanks, Paul of Tarsus, for that quote).
My Christianity and my love for my fellow man are not mutually exclusive at all. It is in fact, it is Christ's love and compassion of my fellow man that lives in me that fuels my own love and compassion for my fellow man and influences me to tell people how to go to Heaven and escape hell.
If I didn't have compassion and love for my fellow man, if I didn't care about others' eternity, why would I be even expressing my beliefs that all nonbelievers will go to hell? Wouldn't it be easier for me to just let people believe what they want, without offering my own opinions? It would be easier on me, as I am usually rebuked by nonbelievers for being "narrow-minded and self-righteous".
If I didn't care, I wouldn't tell about Jesus. Period.
80's I am pretty sure you would consider yourself a fundamentalist....
If this is the case, could you respond to the original quote in this thread? Do you agree that there should be more of a focus on other sins besides the ones Bono specifies and focus on some of the others?
If this is the case, could you respond to the original quote in this thread? Do you agree that there should be more of a focus on other sins besides the ones Bono specifies and focus on some of the others?
