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Old 04-27-2005, 11:19 AM   #166
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I don't understand how homosexuallity could possibly be a choice. What would motivate someone to choose a lifestyle that would guarantee discrimination and hate toward them? I just don't get it. People are either gay, straight, or bi, and born that way, IMO.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:23 AM   #167
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I agree U2Dem....I'm trying to remember a time when I actively chose to be attracted to men.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:25 AM   #168
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I know i didn't. I just remember watching star wars at a really young age...seeing harrison ford...and...
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:30 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
I don't understand how homosexuallity could possibly be a choice. What would motivate someone to choose a lifestyle that would guarantee discrimination and hate toward them? I just don't get it. People are either gay, straight, or bi, and born that way, IMO.


to be fair, i think 80s did say that he didn't think it was a literal choice but something more complex.

but you're right, no one credible believes it's a literal choice.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:31 AM   #170
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ok, just making sure.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:33 AM   #171
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I put it this way in another thread:

"You know, specific heterosexual sex acts are condemned [in the Bible], but what people do to the so-called "same-sex" passages is that they make sweeping condemnations of *all* same-sex acts on the basis of these passages, while opposite-sex acts are treated with nuance. That is, if heterosexuals are forbidden to rape houseguests, then it'll be interpreted as a prohibition against rape. If homosexuals are forbidden to rape houseguests, it's interpreted that God hates all homosexual acts. It's a consistent and bigoted pattern."

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Old 04-27-2005, 11:35 AM   #172
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good point
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:40 AM   #173
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The best part of this thread was the lyrics to Land Of Hope And Dreams.

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Old 04-27-2005, 11:41 AM   #174
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I've had a hard time finding a "church I could recieve in" honestly because it seems so many want to spend so much energy pointing outwards towards what is wrong with other people or society. What about me? I'm flawed and guilty of ego. Why not talk about the raging dicotchomy in one own's heart? The line between good and evil is drawn straight down the middle of everyone's.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:43 AM   #175
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that's why i like my church. we don't focus on what's wrong with people, we focus on trying to help people and finding the goodness within people
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:48 AM   #176
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Sound like a good church to me U2Dem. I mean the whole idea of Grace is something that is so simplistic and at the same time so complex. You aren't treated as you ought to be under Grace. Grace can see the beauty inside through all the muddle and the muck. To paraphase a Bono thought, the very idea that that same force of Love that created the universe is interested in me, it is so humbling and overwhelming. And, in my thoughts, it is so contradictory compared to human nature.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:51 AM   #177
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several churches of my denomination are in ohio (i think) so if you see any "christian church disciples of christ" you should definitely check it out. we're good liberals
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:56 AM   #178
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80'sU2, I'd just like to say that I appreciate your posts. As a person sharing the same views, I've enjoyed being able to see someone else discuss them intelligently and in a christ-centered way. Thanks
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Old 04-27-2005, 12:05 PM   #179
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But to kind of refer specifically to the original post, I've been thinking alot about the concept of "equality". Because I think in reference to the original quote there is a large sense of inequality in how we as Westerners think of people in Third World countries. True, some people may be charitable towards them. Sending aid and things like that. But even therein lies a flaw in that. The belief in being charitable lends itself to the idea that we are coming from a position of strength to bestow aid to someone less fortunate. There is a balancing act involved in that.

I know the idea of equality is just that. An idea. But it's definable. Aristotle once said that 'equality consists in the same treatment of similar persons'. Well of course you'd logically ask then, What is similar? Each individual is unique and yet can still be lumped into groups or categories: Woman, Rich, Homosexual.... We can see in just the history of the US how the definition of equality has changed under its Constitiutuion. So given the disparties among people, a belief in equality requires an act. An act of choice.

I choose to believe that people in Third World countries are our equals. They are our equals because they are human beings, just like us. But I don't feel like I'm in the majority (and when I say that I'm not refereing to anyone here). But it is true, if we accepted these people as our equals we wouldn't let 6500 people die a day for want of things you and I take for granted, things like clean water, an immunization, and food/shelter. It isn't about charity. It's about choosing to believe that to do otherwise would indeed debase and literally write off a beautiful and dignified culture that is being held down by an unlevel playing field.
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Old 04-27-2005, 12:06 PM   #180
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Wasn't this thread about Bono's view point about fundamentalists?

I just got this book the other day and am SO GRATEFUL that Bono has finally put IN HIS OWN WORDS his feelings about many things, especially about his take on Christianity and the responsibilities of Christians to do good to others (especially the poor) and not to judge others.

I think his words will not make many fundamentalists who wanted to brand Bono as one of their own very happy.

I agree with Bono.
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